[fredprobyn]

I am back on the forum board now thanks to one of the moderators,I had to have a new pass word but it worked for me so thank you for that.
                                                                                  Fred

[martyn142]

Nice to see you back Fred, I'd wondered where you had gone.  

[Rocke]

You could have joined again as 'The Superintendant' or something like that Fred.

Everybody's doing it ( I think ).

Seriously though, looking forward to your contributions again.

[fredprobyn]

Hello Martyn and Rocke,yes its nice to be back on the board,but i dont want to be superintendant or any thing else i will remain just Fred.
As an ex pat i love this board and follow some of the debates with great interest,my interest at the moment is how do local councilors,not only in Abertillery but all over the UK including Nuneaton claim expences that are in some cases more than a years salary to some people.
Nuneaton council have even cut out snacks at council meetings,put a lot of in house council jobs to tender to private contractors,cut out the payment point (for rents and rates) in the council house to save rate payers money so they say yet their expences claims seems to be on the up and up.
They must think that the ratepayers of this Town are as thick as pudding to fall for that.
              Fred

[Rocke]

Briefly Fred, - well probably not, so put the kettle on - in the mid-90's it was thought that electors might not be getting the best Councillors they could because the work involved stopped many from seeking election.
How many would lose a shift ( say, what - £50 take-home ) for the then-attendance allowance of around £35 ?

So Governments ( yes - the Tories came up with the idea and Labour put it into motion ) decided to effectively pay salaries to councillors, thereby adequately compensating anyone who lost time and pay.

Of course, salaries have to be based on something.
In Wales ( after WAG came into being of course ) research was done which indicated that on average councillors spent around 90-odd hours per month on constituency and council business ( eg. sorting out constituents' issues and of course attending meetings ).
Councillors' salaries ( Allowances to use the correct term ) are determined by a number of factors:

1) They are based linked to AMs' allowances, as a proportion of them, due to councillors 'working' less hours ;
2) The amount worked out is then subjected to a 'public service discount'. This recognises that people who stand for Council in part do it because of their public-spiritedness and not for the money ( don't anyone laugh, this is the theory ).
3) Depending upon the Authority ( population, demography and I don't what other factors ) a maximum amount payable is then set. For Blaenau Gwent it's just under £13,000.
Note - a maximum amount is set - Councils do not have to pay that, they can set whatever level they wish, up to the maximum.

Expenses - travelling, subsistence where a minimum length of time is spent away from home and misc. expenses ( accommodation ), car parking etc. ) are set down the same for every authority, a council has no say in this.

So, WAG decides upon a reasonable figure and sets a maximum.
Councils decide how much they will pay.
And here's the rub - Councillors themselves decide how much they will claim.
A Member can elect to receive any amount up to what his Council allows.

Now, some Councillors will have additional responsibilities, such as Chairing Committees or even being responsible for entire fujnctions of the council, such as Social Care, Housing, Leisure etc. etc. ( These latter members are called Executive Members ).
In recognition of this WAG allows for additional payments called Special Responsibility Allowances (SRA).
Mine as a Vice Chair is some £5,000pa.
Provision for the Leader is I believe of the order of £26,000+.
( I say 'provision' because I don't know what he is axctually paid ie. claims ).

I do know however, that People's Voice members have elected to receive only 50% of their SRAs, which I read in The Gazette last year, in reply to someone who wrongly claimed they had reneged on their pledge to get reduce SRAs to save money.

Although Members will almost always receive increases, mainly due to the increases ( approved by the UK Government in the case of English Authorities Fred ) some that look huge are most likely due to that particular councillor moving into a role where they are entitled to an SRA.

The key issue for me - yes, I'm in danger of repeating myself - is that it is what your councillor does for the money they receive that is more important than the pay itself.
The Welsh independent review body is suggesting that councils publish not only amounts paid but also meetings attended.

In Blaenau Gwent there is a large disparity between councillors viz a viz the number of committees they sit on ( Executive Members don't sit on committees however ). I know of some who elected to be on 1 only, 1 who through no real fault is only on 1 and ones who are on 5 - possibly more - out of the 7 that ordinary councillors are entitled to be part of ( subject to the politics of it of course ).
I also get the impression that some of the more membership-oriented councillors don't actually make the attendences commensurate with the number of committees they sit on.

That's going to be the problem with disclosing the number of meetings attended - how do we ensure that the public gets the proper, undistorted  picture ?

( It's actually even more complex than that, since some members belong to working groups and therefore attend even more meetings than you might expect. In theory a councillor could sit on 4 committees and therefore attend 32 meetings ( 8 sittings/yr ).
Another might be on just 2 but attend 40-odd ( 16 sittings of their committees, perhaps 6 working groups, 10 full councils and 8 meetings of outside bodies such as the Police, Fire or NHS Boards they represent us on ).

Difficult one that.

Anyway Fred, there you go, the kettle should have boiled by now...................

[fredprobyn]

Rocke,after reading that lot i had time to boil an urn of water to make tea ha ha ,however i do realise that a lot of people do sit in or attend several different groups and it can be time consuming.I also know that certain claims are valid and need to be paid out.But i am no accountant by any means but to me as an individual when i read of claims for services given i just cannot see the justification in claiming such large expences.
I Assume most of them have full time jobs or are retired???
My expectations of a councilor are that they do the job for the good of the people they represent and i am sure a lot do but sadly there are always those who will jump on the gravy train. i know when i read the names of the local councillors up here and see some of the expences they claim i must confess that my thoughts are not very charitable,
                                                                       Fred