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stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

Does anybody know the current whereabouts of the gravestones that used to stand in the cemetery up there ?
Rocke

Some are still there.

2 War Grave ones went missing in the 70's, and another more recently I believe.

Been pointed out to CWGC by a member of the local RBL and they are on the case.
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

I know the War Commissioner is on the case but I was looking for information on the locals.
There were 3,433 graves purchased up there and there are three or four people buried in some graves. I appreciate that not everybody had a stone but since they levelled it in 1979 a lot of stones have gone awol.
As some of the gravestone inscriptions have been recorded, I summise they've been destroyed, just seeking to have it clarified.
It's for others with family buried up there to determine whether the church, council or both are culpable.
Rocke

OK.

Suffice to say that BG Council's been involved.
It seems that over 20-odd years ago the council took over responsibility for the upkeep of the Churchyard.

Some gravestones were placed against the Church wall (I understand there's only a few there).
The Church Secretary has a disc containing grave details we believe and one of the church members is going to see if I can have a lend and replicate it.

I suggest that any enquiries regarding burial records etc. should be addressed to BGCBC.

Bry - perhaps you'd pass this info on to Speakeasy, since you've been the prime mover behind the quest to get info.

Cheers.
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

I'm not on Speakeasy, just asking for one or two people living away who have family not military buried up there. I'll pass on your comments and assume the gravestones have been destroyed.
Regards the military is the memorial by the caged stone wall still there, believe Jones & Rose are commemorated on there, know the row and grave numbers for the other 11 if there's still a plan of the site.
Rocke

As far as I know yes.

I'll check it on my way down town this evening.
I can just about remember where the servicemens' graves are. I believe down in the corner nearest Alma St bus stop, along the bottom side towards the Mount and I think a cluster near the side of the Church.

Again, I'll check on my way out.
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

Thanks mush (Nantyglo speak), not been much on here lately.
dragongirl

Blaenau gwent Graveyard

Hi Stoob

My sister died at 10days old and was buried in Blaenau Gwent grave
 yard, Ironically in the same area that Rocke said the War graves are  ,down in the corner near the wall near  the road nearest the
Mount.

This was 1936 but a few years later my parents were told the grave had to be moved because it was  lying in water which they`d tried to drain etc  My sister was reburied near the chapel I did write to the Registrars office  a few years ago but they had no information other that all gravestones were removed and placed along the walls. As people like my parents were unlikely to have afforded a stone to mark the grave it seems my sister was lost

   Dragongirl
Rocke

It's a bit of a strange situation this because there are headstones still standing (or leaning), and monuments.

Why some and not others?

Most regrettably the majority of the chapelyard is flattened and under about 4-6 ins of grass. There's no chance of identifying the resting place of someone and I'd say little chance of identifying a grave from a map, since it's difficult to identify what is a grave.

Gravestones of servicemen are still standing (I haven't checked if it's all of them and I haven't counted but they're where I remember them to have been when they were photographed for the British War Memorial Project).
The memorial headstone for Messrs Rose and Jones is still intact up by the 'stone cage' but is is poor condition (can only just make out the date of young Rose's death).
Its inscription says that they are 'Buried elsewhere in this chapelyard'.

If I get access to the archived info I will of course keep this thread updated.
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

Maybe a wildlife garden would have been an option but health and safety would put the kybosh on that.
IEH

Hope you don't mind me joining this conversation Stoob? I had a go at placing people using a plan I constructed by cross referencing as many sources I could find. The War graves I placed using the R/G numbers from the War Graves Commission site. I don't know where the "Cage Stone Wall" is as when we visited a few weeks ago I didn't know what to look for? But if anyone can spot problems with this plan I would be delighted to improve it.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin...PIpi=99370305&PIMode=cemetery

If the link doesn't work for you I will post the image.
Rocke

Air Mechanic Jones' and Private Rose's dual memorial headstone is located at approx. Row 18 Grave 78 on the (very accurate) map in IEH's link (hi, by the way and welcome along).

It's almost exactly straight ahead as you walk up the path from the Preston St entrance. As mentioned above, it's very weathered.
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

No problem Ian, guess it's military marked

James Edward Day, Row 23 Grave43
A E Warlow, Row 25 Grave 56
H J Lee, Row 25 Grave 61
William John Lewis, Row 29 Grave 84
Alfred George Hadley, Row 30 Grave 101
E Batten, Row 36 Grave 50
H G Boswell, Row 36 Grave65
Albert Bearcroft, Row 39 Grave 61
J Barnett, Row 40 Grave 36
David Jones, Row 40 Grave 87
David Rees Griffiths, Row 43 Grave 71

C J E Jones, Caged stone wall.
William Haydn Rose, Caged stone wall.
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

According to Alison Beaver's post in the memories section dated 12 April 2011 there's a microfiche at Tredegar library.
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.




IEH

Rocke / Stoob, is this about it?

[/img]
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

Solid Ian.
Knew David Rees Griffiths died at home in 1915, saw it recently in the book "With Rifle and Pick".
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

Ian, do you have access to the people buried there ?
If so look for a Thomas Bevan for me he died September 1906, would have been a big funeral.
IEH

Hi stoob, R10/G50 Bevan Thomas, School, for Son, 21/9/1893 but I think also this one R10/G55, its Beavan Thomas, I suspect a miss type as this is about were the large obelisk is. I think this is actually just below the path. A little tweak to the plan needed. I will email the inscription to you as its a bit long to type. The inscription mentions at least 8 people so their will be at least one more grave which I cannot instantly identify. It can be difficult piecing the bits together as you need to know family relationships and dates! down t know if the large obelisk still exists?
Rocke

The Memorial Stone is just about spot on Ian.
IEH

A rather  thought-provoking fact:

Out of the 3433 graves purchased 1376 were originally  for  children and 264 for a son or daughter.
Rocke

Dark days.

Dragongirl's sister, poor little mite, had a life of just 10 days.
Infant mortality was enormous in those days.

We (I most certainly) complain about Labour letting us down but let's never forget that it brought about an end to things such as that.
IEH

Rocke. Going back to the original question 'Does anybody know the current whereabouts of the gravestones that used to stand in the cemetery up there ?' posted by stoob. I don't want to get political at all, I just wanted to find out what happened to my wife's family grave stones. Is this post that you made last year correct, are they laid flat?


Rocke, Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:24 pm
"Hi Daff.

I think it's correct to think of it like a churchyard. It was totally administered by the Baptist Church.
All the headstones have now been laid flat and hence from a distance it looks like an open patch of land.
As far as I recall, all (or certainly the majority) of war-related graves are behind the church (I believe the Baptists took on the name 'church' some years back) ie on the Eastern/Alma St (google maps) side.
Again, please feel free to PM me - I live less than 50 yds from there."
Rocke

Well, it was totally administered by the Baptist Church - until around 20 years ago I'm reliably informed. That's when BGCBC took on the responsibility. (Sorry but if I'd have known at the time I was a councillor and this question had arisen then more info would have been provided because I'd have imposed my right as a councillor to know what happened).

In all honesty not all the headstones have been laid flat.
The obelisks and other 'non-headstones' are still upright, as are a few family headstones (albeit at varying degrees of leaning) and the CWGC ones (all upright).
The absolutely correct description would be to say that over 90% of graves have no marker above ground level. (There is not 340 'markers' visible and if there are over 3,400 graves then I am correct).

Your accurate diagram shows that all the graves of servicemen are indeed on the eastern side, apart from the dual memorial for Air Technician Jones and Private Rose (who as the memorial states are 'buried elsewhere' in the chapelyard).

My posts and contributions are not primarily political but I accept that since there will possibly be implied criticism of a council that is run by a party (and its members) that I quite clearly have absolutely no confidence in, an attempt could be made to make it out to be that way. I think however that use of the 'p' word in a situation such as this is not just unfortunate but demeans the values we put on the sacrifice of those who were and are ours Ian.
IEH

Thanks Stoob and Rocke, If anyone can add more details please let us know. The plan is my best guess, but is totally free to use if it helps place other people's family.
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

Apparently from 01 April 2014 the administration charge for the Borough Council to do a burial search was set at £55.00p.
The Gwent Family History Society charge £2.00p plus postage for the same service.
The cats are getting fatter, have to widen the doors over the Civic soon.
Rocke

Re: Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

stoob wrote:
Apparently from 01 April 2014 the administration charge for the Borough Council to do a burial search was set at £55.00p.
The Gwent Family History Society charge £2.00p plus postage for the same service.
The cats are getting fatter, have to widen the doors over the Civic soon.


You ought to be in Opposition Bry  Very Happy
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

Rocke, if you have the minutes of the burial search fee increase, put the names of the committee that decided it up please. You know they love their names in the spotlight.
Rocke

Interesting.

I can't find it in any Minutes of what I think is the relevant Committee.
I've asked the Council to let me know when and how these were agreed.

Watch this space I suppose.................
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

Rocke, there's a theory that those gravestones are buried beneath the new church.
Given this councils track record it has to be a credible opinion.
Rocke

From what I'm given to understand ('local knowledge' ie. people in the locality who've lived there for quite a few years) gravestones were retrieved and some (only a few) were/are placed against the new Church walls.

However, in tandem with the former chapel being demolished, the new church and - more importantly - Corbin Court springing up I'm reliably informd by an eyewitness that bulldozing caused some graves (note - I'm not saying headstones, that's uncertain) to be buried.

On Ian's map/plan of the chapelyard I'm uncertain whether the original chapel building's grounds are on there as well (if so they would be Rows 1-10, 'graves' 40-upward.
The path is still there and from my recent visit I'd say the area I've mentioned is (or contains) the original grounds.
I can try to map it out if you wish.

Would would be useful is any old photographs (such as yours) but taken from the South ie. looking straight up towards BG. That would enable us to see how close to the orginal building graves/headstones were. There is the possibility that Corbin Court or part of its area does cover graves.

If I remember rightly when we were kids there was a grass bank leading up to and around the building, so there wouldn't have been graves there to be honest.
IEH

Thanks for that Rocke very helpful. There are a number of old maps for Abertillery here:

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/

The one for 1962 is probably the most interesting, as the boundaries between the church and the graveyard are relatively clear.

This and the modern plans superimpose on each other quite closely. It makes perfect sense that soil was moved about burying graves .  This should never have happened as I assume the Corben Court land was sold and separate! If you can add more with a sketch that would be great. I keep trying to refine my plan as others give me more  information. I don't suppose you know who the contractor was and if they still exist?
IEH

Fiche 80

Gwent Family History Society Fiche 80 is apparently what was recorded by the Council in 1979 (Great and very accurate work from the GFHS by the way). Given all the inconsistencies I have worked through the Fiche  record by record about 2 and a half thousand just in the Fiche! As it's all so inconsistent I had no choice but to try and check every one! It really seems to be incredibly badly done by the Council, this all seems a very poor record. I really wonder what on earth was going on.

We did make a freedom of information request to the church and the council on 6 May 2014 but have had no response to date.
Rocke

Re: Fiche 80

IEH wrote:
Gwent Family History Society Fiche 80 is apparently what was recorded by the Council in 1979 (Great and very accurate work from the GFHS by the way). Given all the inconsistencies I have worked through the Fiche †record by record about 2 and a half thousand just in the Fiche! As it's all so inconsistent I had no choice but to try and check every one! It really seems to be incredibly badly done by the Council, this all seems a very poor record. I really wonder what on earth was going on.

We did make a freedom of information request to the church and the council on 6 May 2014 but have had no response to date.


The Church isn't covered/governed by the FOI Act Ian.
BUT the Council is.

And it has 20 working days in which to respond to requests under the FOIA.

I bet you get a response in the VERY near future.

Anyway, post the question you asked on here, and I'll give advice on whether it was phrased in such a way as to get what you actually wanted out of the council.

The FOI Ac t, I'm afraid, is very much like dealing with Sir Humphrey in Yes (Prime) Minister.
IEH

Still working on what happened to the gravestones. But on another front  I am combining all the known information as it stands for the GFHS. A bit of a mission to say the least. †If anyone has family there not recorded or want to add a short tribute let us know by the end of September 2014. †Like dragongirl and us, I know there are many people there not recorded.
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

Reverend Thomas Towy Evans was pastor up there for 34 years and his daughter Margaret Towy Evans who died 01 February 1984 had a gravestone up there as well.
Scandalous what they did.
stoob

Blaenau Gwent Chapelyard.

Rocke, rumour on the street that the council has relented on wreaths being laid up there for those who fell in the Great War.
Couple of others who were commemorated up there were Boaz Williams who was killed in France 8 May 1915, aged 19. He had a scroll on grave 70 in plot 1, and  William Edgar Curnuck who died of wounds received in Salonika 26 April 1917, aged 30. He had an obelisk on grave 151 plot 4.
Can't imagine you'll find those graves but see if the legion has the information.

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