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Rocke

Labour Suffers Elections Setback

Quote:
Labour plans to sweep back into power in next May's Council elections have suffered a setback following the removal of 'Eddie Legge' from Abertillery Online.

It has been an open secret for some time that 'Eddie Legge', whilst being the name of a living person, is used as a pseudonym under which Labour gets its policies publicised and makes comments and observations about political opponents.

However, following a misplaced article, where 'Eddie Legge' posted a political diatribe in the Online Forum's 'General' non-political section, the site administrator took the decision to ban the pseudonym and owner permanently, thereby ending Labour's trial run of using the acceptable face of the general public to peddle views that the electors found unacceptable last time round.

Following the debacle it is believed that 'Florence Nightingale', 'The Archbishop of Canterbury' and 'Henry Kissinger' will not now be candidates in Cwmtillery Ward.

Current Ward Member David Rocke said 'I doubt it will stop them. Instead of their saints it will be us sinners. I'm not sure which of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse I'll be made out to be but there is a White Horse Court in the Ward.'

No Labour official was available for comment, 'Eddie Legge' having been banned of course.  


Wink
Anthony Earl-Williams

Soap Box

Dear Cllr. Rocke,
                           If the Archbishop of Canterbury did stand for election in Cwmtillery, it is fairly certain that he would top the poll.
Nonetheless, I am sure that all your own untiring, stirling efforts on behalf of the community over the last three-and-a-half years will see you re-elected. It isn't words that count, it is visible action. I wish you great success.
Before anyone accuses a clergyman of bias, I also recommend my good friend of many years to the Cwmtillery electorate - Mrs Christine Tidey of the Labour Party. She and her late mother Nancy, another close family friend, have done much for Abertillery and district over decades. Christine deserves a chance.
This is the first time in my life that I, a member of the Conservative Party, have ever advised anyone to support a Labour candidate! (Mark you, certainly only one of their three!)
People won't be deceived: they will know who has already fulfilled their democratic obligation to the community, and also who is most likely to do so in the coming years!
Sincerely,
Anthony
martyn142

Has Chris been selected to stand then Anthony? In Cwmtillery?
Anthony Earl-Williams

Soapbox

Yes, Martyn!
So it can't be a secret!
Anthony
Rocke

Re: Soap Box

Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
Dear Cllr. Rocke,
                           If the Archbishop of Canterbury did stand for election in Cwmtillery, it is fairly certain that he would top the poll.
Nonetheless, I am sure that all your own untiring, stirling efforts on behalf of the community over the last three-and-a-half years will see you re-elected. It isn't words that count, it is visible action. I wish you great success.
Before anyone accuses a clergyman of bias, I also recommend my good friend of many years to the Cwmtillery electorate - Mrs Christine Tidey of the Labour Party. She and her late mother Nancy, another close family friend, have done much for Abertillery and district over decades. Christine deserves a chance.
This is the first time in my life that I, a member of the Conservative Party, have ever advised anyone to support a Labour candidate! (Mark you, certainly only one of their three!)
People won't be deceived: they will know who has already fulfilled their democratic obligation to the community, and also who is most likely to do so in the coming years!
Sincerely,
Anthony


Not if it was a pseudonym of another Labour candidate with VERY close ties with the Community Council Anthony.
( And as it happened the Archbishop couldn't stand because he's a member of the House of Lords I think, or sopme capacity that precludes standing in an election ).

And talking of ties with the Community Council, that could be her undoing.

Oh - and the fact that electing any Labour candidate puts over £1,000 into Labour Party coffers over the 4-year term of office.

Labour will have the same problem as 4 years ago ie. people think a vote for its candidates is simply giving someone money for old rope.

I'll make no bones about it, I'll be asking people about Labour's Back to the Future plans. Yep, the diehards and old boys, not youth and progress. 'You didn't vote for us last time and look what you got instead' and people will of course say ' aye, we didn't vote for you last time because you were useless, so we won't vote for you again because you're still useless'.

When will the Labour Party start being the party of the people again, not the party of old-hat working class heroes with their own little club ?

People want change. The traditional-style Independent group hasn't gone far enough. It's still got 'old boy politics' embedded in it, but at least it's moving things forward. A few more 'new boys' to fully complement the wise experienced 'old heads' and BG's on its way.

That applies to the Labour Party as well. But it's just the same failed names, no freshness.

Chris Tidey I'm afraid will face a fight to keep her Community Council seat, let alone a Borough Council one. Me and a few of the people are after the Community Council. Value for money isn't more than 50% of the precept being spent on payroll costs.
Anthony Earl-Williams

Soapbox

I agree with you about "payroll costs" and general socialist failure, but that does not mean that every Labour person is unworthy of office.
Yes, I am perfectly aware that the Archbishop of Canterbury (well, so called, since as a Catholic, I do not regard him as a valid bishop anyway) cannot stand!  He can however vote in local elections. I merely said that IF he were to stand in Cwmtillery, he would top the poll!
I don't, by the way, think that Christine is quaking in her boots!
A
David

Well she should be quaking in her boots after an endorsement from a tory. Who also believes that unemployment in Abertillery and Six Bells isnt " so acute" and everyone lives "fairly comfortable lives". Get real vicar.
Anthony Earl-Williams

Soapbox

It's people like you who should get real and stop thinking "society" owes you a living!
Why would local factories need to employ Polish people, who, as citizens of the EU must be paid the minimum wage, when there are young people in Abertillery who could take those jobs. And that goes for the whole country.
At least the Coalition Government is increasing hugely the number of apprenticeships for young people.
Abertillery is still adjusting to the problem that it is no longer a coal producing community; my own Party is partly to blame for pit closures, but much of it would have happened under Labour. And you can blame Scargill for encouraging Mrs T to get on with it.
The geography/topography of the South Wales valleys hinders the growth of new industry. People, after all, followed the coal. It may take 50 more years before those communities find a sustainable new way of living. But I sincerely believe that it will happen.
When your Borough Council has stopped its silly squabbles, perhaps it will put all its energies into long term attraction of new companies: start putting people first.
Of course unemployment is a scourge but there was a Labour Government for 13 years.
And don't tell me that there aren't many comfortably off families in Blaenau Gwent because I know there are; and I am not speaking only of bloated councillors!
You should try living in parts of London if you think you are hard done by!
If socialism worked, you would all now be living off the fat of the land.
As a Catholic priest, I see all around me the material and spiritual manifestations of a dislocated society - in the local council estates and in prison visiting. It all goes back to the family and how children are brought up. In that respect Abertillery, a place I love, has a distinct advantage, for it is still largely family orientated.
Don't accuse Conservatives of 'not caring'. We do, but we are the Party of Common Sense.
This is not 1920 - it will soon be 2020. Left wing moaners should wake up and fall off the coach!
As the old Abertillery Grammar School motto rather succinctly put it:  Deffro, mae'n dydd!
+Anthony
Rocke

Re: Soapbox

Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
I agree with you about "payroll costs" and general socialist failure, but that does not mean that every Labour person is unworthy of office.
Yes, I am perfectly aware that the Archbishop of Canterbury (well, so called, since as a Catholic, I do not regard him as a valid bishop anyway) cannot stand!  He can however vote in local elections. I merely said that IF he were to stand in Cwmtillery, he would top the poll!
I don't, by the way, think that Christine is quaking in her boots!
A


I totally agree with you there.
There are some very good Labour Members who most definitely are representatives of the public first and Labourite second.

In fact I think I have a lot in common with them. Socialist views and firmly behind the people.

The problem is one of give a dog a bad name, guilt by association and the like.
The 'Town Council' as almost eveyone calls it is seen as a vehicle for the Clerk to have a pension, and for unelected people ( because most have been returned unopposed ) to have a few jollies a year, including trips to France on Twinning expeditions.

Labour is tarnished because of the likes of those in positions of power. 'Cllr McCarthy' is possibly the name that brings the most derogatory remarks from people when I mention it. If someone who only just scrapes in is deemed to be good enough to be Party Leader what are people to think of those Labour members who gave him that position ?

And Chris doesn't have to quake. She's nothing to lose, apart from pride, but that's after the count, not before.
However, she could fall from the Community Council, such is the annoyance of people in Cwmtillery with it.
Saeson

Re: Soapbox

Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
It's people like you who should get real and stop thinking "society" owes you a living!

This Tory chant is almost as tiresome as those who think that "society" (I do like your inverted commas, Maggie would appreciate that) does indeed owe them a living.

Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
At least the Coalition Government is increasing hugely the number of apprenticeships for young people.


Or as the Daily Torygraph so caringly put it "Unemployed teenagers to be given jobs funded by the taxpayer"

Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
When your Borough Council has stopped its silly squabbles, perhaps it will put all its energies into long term attraction of new companies: start putting people first.


You certainly need the private sector but you don`t attract it by putting people first.

Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
You should try living in parts of London if you think you are hard done by!

Why would or should the unemployed and otherwise disadvantaged of Blaenau Gwent give two hoots about London sink estates? Do you tell the good folk of Tottenham that they should be glad they don`t live in Somalia?

Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
Don't accuse Conservatives of 'not caring'. We do, but we are the Party of Common Sense.

The Conservatives have no empathy. You can "care" for your staff or your horses, but that doesn`t make you "caring", it just means you probably have a good deal of "Common Sense".
Ian

I must admit to be a little perturbed at a man of the cloth spouting openly political rhetoric.Surely your principals alone would cause you extreme problems with the way the present government has chosen to go about solving the economics of this country.Their answer is to make the people at the bottom end of the scale pay for the failings of those at the top with little or no affect themselves or those who support them.Subsidised job placements for six months don't lead to permanent jobs,making people work for nothing or lose their benefits amounts in my view to a form of slave labour.(now I understand why they want move people of sickness benefits and on to the unemployment register)

They state that they want to make it pay to work,,they are however not able to create the jobs to support this ideology.Instead they attack the benefit system,I'm no economist but it seems simple to me instead of doing these things then you get their already affluent friends to increase wages,this would attract people to take on these jobs,which would give them more spending power therefore boosting the economy.

Don't accuse them of not caring you say,they care alright but just about their self serving affluence,it is their only concern and you call this common sense...............rant over for now
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

You care by emplying common sense.
It isn't practical to run a country by 'empathy'
How could the good samaritan have helped the man on the road to Jericho if he had had an empty purse!
I put 'society' in inverted commas not because I don't think there IS 'society' but because there are, surely, thousands of different societies all over Britain.
And the apprenticeships are real ones which are intended to lead to real jobs. And if they are largely funded by the taxpayer, then that is taxpayers' money being put to good, practical use for once! Mr Clegg has, only this morning, made important satements about this. In my opinion it will be 1 Billion Pounds well spent.
I don't believe everything the 'Telegraph' says!
No, one doesn't tell the black people among the rioters to 'go back to Somalia' (or anywhere else), yet common sense should ask why the ones who have arrived since the late 1970s were all allowed to pour in here in the first place, if there were clearly no decent prospects for them. That is not 'racist' but common sense.
Further to my remarks about the new Poles at Abertillery (and I am not against the Poles, my late Godmother having been one who escaped communism after the War), let me make one final observation about unemployment, in the same vein: locally in this part of Hampstead/Gospel Oak we have 4 young roadsweepers, all from Slovakia. Very pleasant young men they are too. But where on earth is the common sense in employing Slovaks to do the work which 4 unemployed 'London lads' should be doing? And if they don't want to do it - tough!
It all boils down to common sense.
Anthony
Saeson

Re: soapbox

Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:

It isn't practical to run a country by 'empathy'

The result being that the people who run our country have not the first idea what it means to be poor and/or unemployed. I think they may occasionally shudder at the thought, but that is all.

Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
No, one doesn't tell the black people among the rioters to 'go back to Somalia' (or anywhere else), yet common sense should ask why the ones who have arrived since the late 1970s were all allowed to pour in here in the first place, if there were clearly no decent prospects for them. That is not 'racist' but common sense.

I can honestly say that race did not cross my mind. I chose Somalia as the most poverty stricken, war-torn country I could think of. I`ll leave you to deal with your own thoughts.
David

You really dont know what your talking about vicar. Immigrant workers undercut British workers wages. An example. A company in Newport pay welders £10.50 ph. Then employ 15 welders through an agency in Poland at £7ph. Get it vicar?
Anthony Earl-Williams

SoapBox

Undercutting should and could be stopped. But it wasn't stopped under your socialist idiots either, was it?
As the link you gave is a pack of lies, I suggest you remove it.
You are clearly an evil, spiteful person.
Saeson

How bizarre. Anyway back to the Soap Box.......

Polish workers can come over here and work just as freely as readers of the Daily Mail can go over there and buy up all their cheap housing until the locals get priced out of the market. It`s called the global economy, something I believe the Conservatives hold dear. You can`t have the penny and the bun.
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

bizarre and untrue. And there are legal matters involved.
I am not against Polish workers coming here. I merely make the point that it seems incongruous that Poles are coming to Abertillery, a town, surely, that they are unlikely to have heard of, when there are so many indigenous unemployed in the town.
Undercutting should be illegal because Poles are in the EU, and should not, by law, be permitted wages  less than British people.
A global economy is inevitable and all parties support it.
Camden Council emplys Slovak young men to sweep the streets. Now, the council, obviously is not paying these boys less than they would local people. So why are local 'London lads'  of perhaps below average intelligence, not prepared to take these jobs?
This is why the benefit system is being altered.
A
Ian

So how exactly is altering the benefit system going to address this problem? Benefits are already set at a level whereby those receiving them can just about survive.Wages in a lot of companies that post millions of pounds in profit every year are not much better.So to protect the affluence of these already rich business owners the policy is to cut the money going to those less well off,presumably aimed at forcing them to work for a pittance.I think you're slowly losing credibility with this type of nonsense.
Saeson

Re: soapbox

Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
I am not against Polish workers coming here. I merely make the point that it seems incongruous that Poles are coming to Abertillery, a town, surely, that they are unlikely to have heard of, when there are so many indigenous unemployed in the town.
Perhaps they come here for the cheap housing and all commute to Cardiff. I don`t know, but then neither do you. Anyway I can assure you that Abertillery is not awash with foreigners. You`re ten times more likely to hear an English accent than a Polish one.
Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
Undercutting should be illegal because Poles are in the EU, and should not, by law, be permitted wages  less than British people.
It is no different to life before the minimum wage when people had no choice but to take work at scandalously low rates. All parties may embrace the global economy, but none do it with such relish as the Tories. This is the inevitable result
Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
So why are local 'London lads'  of perhaps below average intelligence, not prepared to take these jobs?
You really do yourself no favours, you know.
admin

I've edited David's post to remove a link. The article is in the public domain so I'm not claiming he had no right to include it. However, I have been trying - successully - to keep the message board on the right side of the law for some time and I don't want to risk that successful record on this occasion.

Admin
David

admin wrote:
I've edited David's post to remove a link. The article is in the public domain so I'm not claiming he had no right to include it. However, I have been trying - successully - to keep the message board on the right side of the law for some time and I don't want to risk that successful record on this occasion.

Admin


ok i shall turn the other cheek so to speak  Very Happy
David

Re: SoapBox

Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
Undercutting should and could be stopped. But it wasn't stopped under your socialist idiots either, was it?
As the link you gave is a pack of lies, I suggest you remove it.
You are clearly an evil, spiteful person.


Now now my dear calm down. I shan`t tell if you dont  Wink
Grumpy

Camden Council emplys Slovak young men to sweep the streets. Now, the council, obviously is not paying these boys less than they would local people. So why are local 'London lads'  of perhaps below average intelligence, not prepared to take these jobs?
This is why the benefit system is being altered.


Anthony why should someone have to be below average intelligence to sweep the roads? Are the slovak employees below average intelligence? And this from a man of the cloth.
Rocke

Ian wrote:
I must admit to be a little perturbed at a man of the cloth spouting openly political rhetoric.Surely your principals alone would cause you extreme problems with the way the present government has chosen to go about solving the economics of this country.Their answer is to make the people at the bottom end of the scale pay for the failings of those at the top with little or no affect themselves or those who support them.Subsidised job placements for six months don't lead to permanent jobs,making people work for nothing or lose their benefits amounts in my view to a form of slave labour.(now I understand why they want move people of sickness benefits and on to the unemployment register)

They state that they want to make it pay to work,,they are however not able to create the jobs to support this ideology.Instead they attack the benefit system,I'm no economist but it seems simple to me instead of doing these things then you get their already affluent friends to increase wages,this would attract people to take on these jobs,which would give them more spending power therefore boosting the economy.

Don't accuse them of not caring you say,they care alright but just about their self serving affluence,it is their only concern and you call this common sense...............rant over for now


A particular Church in Wales cleric based in Ebbw Vale has been politically active for years mind you Ian.
And there's one who is a councillor.

And remember the Rev Ralph Bowden, and the firebrand Minister Lewis from was it Brynithel way ?

It's a pity politicians don't enter into reciprocal arrangements.
Imagine the monasteries and seminaries full of them.........
Rocke

Grumpy wrote:
Camden Council emplys Slovak young men to sweep the streets. Now, the council, obviously is not paying these boys less than they would local people. So why are local 'London lads'  of perhaps below average intelligence, not prepared to take these jobs?
This is why the benefit system is being altered.


Anthony why should someone have to be below average intelligence to sweep the roads? Are the slovak employees below average intelligence? And this from a man of the cloth.


Come and watch me change a washer in a tap if you want to see 'below average intelligence'.
Ian

I think it was the conflict of interests that I would expect to exist between the principals of a member of the clergy and the current cut everything policy that this particular one seems to be in agreement with.I think their subsequent posts proved my point.   Laughing
Rocke

St Pauls springs to mind here Ian.

Not 'my' St Pauls but the cathedral.
The 'holier than thou' activists debasing a holy place, and the clerics allowing it.

What was it our Lord said when put to the test - 'give unto God what is God's and give unto man what is man's'.

Under the law they are trespassers. Chuck 'em out.
The Church can always - as the Archbishops of Canterbury and Westminster have done on occasions - comment on the injustices of this world.

Anarchists, hijacking religion, and religious people being gullible.
Anthony Earl-Williams

Soapbox

...religious people being gullible.
Quite.......
Not me!
Thanks, Rocky!
+Anthony
Ian

From what has beeen said here Rocke,I feel personally than a little more that just commenting on injustices,seemed more like supporting some of them to me.I'm in no way religious myself but each to their own,it was the matter of principle that perturbed me.As fror the Archbishop of Canterbury commenting on issues like Saint Pauls he has said Jesus would be out there camping with your anarchists. Confused
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

Our Lord Jesus Christ would not be camping with the anarchists, He would more probably be under the arches of Charing Cross feeding the homeless, and not just with physical food, but with spiritual food.
The entire point of His earthly life was to bring people to knowledge of the Living God and, as God Himself, to be the final Sacrifice to blot out our wickedness and reunite us with Heaven.
He said, holding a coin: "Render to Caesar the things that be Caesar's and to God the things that be God's."
This is not a promotion of anarchy but of the worldly satus quo BECAUSE our destiny is not here but elsewhere.
This is not to say that we should not work for the good of all (as instructed by our Lord's compassion), but we must acknowledge  that this world is but a prelude to our real Home.
Ian

As I said each to their own beliefs,one interesting point /contradiction would in my opinion be

This is not a promotion of anarchy but of the worldly satus quo   [quote]

How would that fit with your viewpoints on Jesus feeding the homeless or on a political front the cutbacks being imposed by a government that you support..are they both not examples of altering this staus quo.   Rolling Eyes
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

the "status quo" changes from week to week and from Government to Government.
My point is simply that it is of this world (however well or badly managed) and not concerned with our eternal destiny which is Christ.
The constant demand for "Growth" (because we're worth it) is an illustration, Ian, of how society generally is divorced from any seeking of what Iris Murdoch called "the Good". She, by the way, began as a left wing socialist and ended as a Conservative.
Social justice is not the property of one political philosphy - the means of attaining some imperfect form of it will inevitably vary.
That is whay our Lord meant with His "render to Caesar" remark to those who were trying to trap him.
I don't have the answer to the ultimate attainment of "the Good" in this life, and neither do you.
We do our best "to serve" until, as the good old Methodists of Abertillery would say, we are "called to Higher Service."
A
Rocke

Let me pose a question:

Suppose these arnachists had occupied a mosque ?
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

OH, Rocky, don't even go there - or start me on that one.
The war in Iraq has removed the 12% of Christians in that country.  Thanks Mr Bush!
Yes, even if the 'mosque' were in Britain, such protestors would have been long evicted. In mohammedan lands, of course, they would have been executed.
It's a long way from Somerset Street Methodists (God bless them), isn't it?
A
Ian

the "status quo" changes from week to week [quote]

Not really a status quo then Rolling Eyes
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

why not?
The status quo of a man's health might be excellent in January and something different in October.
Something can be the status quo and then changed by events.

The EU is the status quo but I hope it won't be for much longer!
Ian

One things a certainty,the status quo of the welfare of this country is rapidly being changed for the worse by this government,so let's hope they suffer the same fate as the EU......The sooner the better Rolling Eyes
Anthony Earl-Williams

Fiddlesticks!
Look, there is no point at all in arguing with communists, so I shan't be replying.
If you think the people of Abertillery are hard done by, you should try Bangladesh!  There IS no true poverty in Great Britain, but plenty of feckless people who think the state owes them a living.
By the way, I don't think the majority of them live in Abertillery. But they are all round me on the council estates of St. Pancras.
What did socialism ever do for anyone? Sod all. The corruption of your borough is beyond belief, so don't lecture a priest who does "serve" and who does believe in "the Good"
aber42

well said Anthony
Ian

I wasn't presuming to lecture anyone,just giving my point of view.Also my point related to the whole of the country not just Abertillery.I can't see how my disagreeing with you makes me a communist.There are also plenty of people who are not feckless and are just looking to get fair reward for their efforts.You see things your way I see them mine that's all there is to it   Rolling Eyes
Ian Jones

[quote]Fiddlesticks!
Look, there is no point at all in arguing with communists, so I shan't be replying.
If you think the people of Abertillery are hard done by, you should try Bangladesh!




Father Anthony, you think a person is a Communist just because they have different views from you (very presumptuous)
You say try Bangladesh, many young British Bangladeshies are actually moving back there from Britain as they can live a much better lifestyle.
You say our Borough is Corrupt beyond belief, do you mean politically/socially/or morally.
And as a man of God who we would expect to always tell the truth, not like us sinners on the subject of corruption which you brought up,  is there corruption in the Catholic Church and if so what is the nature of it?
Also does the Church help all poor people of this world or just the ones that take the Catholic faith ?
There is hardship in Abertillery and in many other parts of Britain as you well know and under this Government unemployment is soaring as it always does under a Tory government.
There is much more hardship to come that is fact.
Phillip T. Small

Ahem !!!!       A coalition government.. NOT a Tory government... And pray do tell what benefits or feeling of well being did the last lot bestow on us mere mortals ? Answer - SFA !!!

Evil or Very Mad
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

Correct, Phillip!
Youth unemployment is a curse, for instance, but it went up by 40% under the Labour Government.  These youths have to be employable, you know - and many in the inner cities genuinely aren't, and that is not intended to be a Party point.
Many other examples too, but if it were all so easy why didn't Labour in its 13 years "put everything right". They were too busy bankrupting the country.
A
Ian Jones

Phillip T. Small said.
Ahem !!!!       A coalition government.. NOT a Tory government... And pray do tell what benefits or feeling of well being did the last lot bestow on us mere mortals ? Answer - SFA !!!


You call it what you will Phillip but the Tories pull the strings of the Lib/Dem puppets.
The junior partners who's leader couldn't face Parliament for a vote of support that would have been a great embarrassment to Clegg after David Cameron's Decision to veto the Euro treaty (which i agree with Cameron and admire him in that at least for standing alone) 1/26 now other Countries are finally finding a backbone.
And then every Lib/Dem MP abstaining from the vote in block because they put their own party interests first instead of voting with the Tories or the opposition.
Does this seem like a coalition to you.
Clegg had his chance to speak up and he declined, today he is hitting out at "xenophobic" comments why did he not speak through the ballot box.
Under Thatcher we were in recession and high unemployment, double didgit interest rates, i can remember at least 15%.
And then her Saviour  the Falklands War or should we call it a Conflict as Mrs T liked to call it, the same war that saved her bacon.  
Oh and the same war that her government helped start by withdrawing HMS Endurance.
After her re-election in 83 she set about destroying the unions oh and i almost forgot the same ( conflict) that She tried to Stitch the Troops up on their right to a war pension.
Reguarding the Labour years, they were trying to put things right after Thatcher Destroyed the heavy industry of this country.
It all went pear shaped after 9/11 the worlds stock markets have not been stable since that event and they not governments rule this world as is clear by the way the bankers get away with their bonuses.
Sadly "Money makes the world go around" .
You tell me what any Tory government has done for Wales? or Britain.
Ahem!! oh i almost forgot the poll tax wasn't it.
I worked in the pits from the age of 15 and i would be only to glad to be working there now.
I am a socialist (not a Communist) just incase someone thinks otherwise.
But i would vote for any Government that is visibly putting this country back on its feet whatever Party it may be.
I want a future for my Grandchildren the same as anyone else does.
When someone calls a whole Borough Corrupt they should at least have the decency to explain their remark.
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

Scargill destroyed the pits, not Lady T, and most people agree that it was high time to tame the unions.
Lady T was elected 3 times and largely at the pencil holding hands of ordinary working folk with common sense!
Anyway, do you really want generations of young men to end up with lung diseases?
Frankly the EU seems intent on centring the coal industry in Poland which is why there are also now no mines in the Czech Lands: a  deliberate act.
I certainly salute the generations of brave men who worked in the pits, but their demise was, I fear, inevitable.
Ian Jones

It wasn't Arthur Scargill who cut striking miner's familys  benefits it was Mrs T as she deemed them to have had strike pay though she well knew they hadn't received any.
It wasn't Scargill who mobilized thousands of Police against lawfully picketing miners.
And it wasn't Scargill who put troops on picket lines with police tunics with the identity numbers removed all this was sanctioned by Mrs T I know from first hand experience! not journalists or history books.
That strike was a strike for the right to work not for a pay rise.
History has proved Scargill right whether you like it or not. Now we are at the mercy of foreign imported fuels that is why our energy bills are so high.
And now there is talk of opening more deep mines but the experienced workforce that were able to train others are now to old.
Anthony you say that its good enough for People "of perhaps below average intelligence" to sweep roads, why not the pits also, your way would solve the problems of our failing education system.
Anthony Earl-Williams

I dare say, Ian, that there are things we do agree on, like the EU.
There would, surely, still be enough mature men left to instruct mining apprentices. But the pits, as they were, anyway, are not coming back.
The deep mine idea is excellent and Mr. Cameron is promoting it.
The best route out of poverty (whatever that really means these days) is through Education. Alas, in London and other English cities, it is often the parents of young children who cannot understand this.  
Whether we like it or not, globalism is helping to pull millions out of REAL poverty and even China's "communist" government is now capitalist!
A
fred probyn

camron

Anthony earl,you must be liveing in a different world to us singing Camerons praises.Let him go down the pit and see how he performs.I doubt if he would be able to crawl along a coal face for 6 hours a day.He has never done a days work in his life.Dont tell me he cannot help who he is,he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth  and has never worked.His job before he went into politics was a PR consultant for a TV company.I wonder if he has ever had to strike for the right to work and got repaid by being charged at by mounted police.Ian Boco is right in what he said.
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

Striking for the right to work is a contradiction in terms.
I note you live in Nuneaton which was a Conservative gain at the General Election.
You must have been furious, dear!!
Ordinary working people with common sense.
Nothing I have said is against the miners.  There were, by the way, miners in Six Bells who voted Conservative - and, no, before you say it, they were not class traitors.  Mr Sweet, our next door neighbour in Richmond Road was one such.  And you certainly wouldn't have wanted to get on the wrong side of MRS Sweet by talking about Labour.  The 3,000/4,000 people in the old Abertillery Constituency who voted Conservative were ordinary, hard working folk with a bit of common sense - my family among them. Oh! And I know people in Arael and Griffin Streets who have always been staunch Tory.
Mr. Cameron cannot "help" his background.  Do you truly think he is so wicked as to wish to grind the noses of working people in the mire?   OOOPs...you probably do!
What's your programme to save the Nation?  More nationalisation and import tariffs?  I am not being nasty - just realistic. The old romantic socialist ideas were honourable in their time - but that time is gone.  Even China is capitalist.
Let's see if the new apprenticeship programme can help just a little bit. Yes - do all jump at once to say how bad that is too!
Abertillery is fortunate in that it is still, largely,a socially cohesive society, whatever the problems. I am certain it has a bright future, whether we live to see it or not.
Where I live and work is not socially cohesive and could, in fact, be considered a hundred different "societies", people simply not even knowing each other.  As a priest I do my best to bring people together and even reconcile families to each other - not easy.
Do you want to come prison visiting with me (to Pentonville) tomorrow afternoon - the Sunday before Christmas? Some of the lads in there are more optimistic than you seem to be!. Now, THEY do know all about a broken society - Abertillery does not.
Do you truly think that Mr. Milliband knows anything about poverty?
No, and I won't insult you by presuming that you would think so!
Stop moaning about left wing dreams, now dead, and go and visit some lonely old people tomorrow. Again, I won't insult you by presuming you don't. I am sure you do.  And pop into one of your local churches to see how they (any of them) are lining up to help the less-well-off in the next 2 weeks.
I will remember you tomorrow at Mass.
Anthony.
ps: one of the best, most effective MPs ever was Abertillery's George Daggar. A good human being and a realist who worked tirelessly for  everyone,  Loved on all sides, he was also the best dressed MP in the entire House, and considered so..  I visited his grave at Brynithell when last there in 2009. Unlike Mr Bevan at Ebbw Vale, Mr Daggar did not hide from his constituents how he liked to dress.  It was a compliment to them, if you like.
My own father witnessed Aneurin Bevan changing from his suit into workmen's clothes in the loo at Newport Railway Station.  That is to say, witnessed his 'walking in' and his 'coming out'  - before anyone should get any ideas!
Seasons Greetings!
David

mmmm isnt that an offence............loitering outside railway toilets?
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

doubt it - they're on the platforms, after all!
Rocke

IAN(boco)jones wrote:
Phillip T. Small said.
Ahem !!!!       A coalition government.. NOT a Tory government... And pray do tell what benefits or feeling of well being did the last lot bestow on us mere mortals ? Answer - SFA !!!


You call it what you will Phillip but the Tories pull the strings of the Lib/Dem puppets.
The junior partners who's leader couldn't face Parliament for a vote of support that would have been a great embarrassment to Clegg after David Cameron's Decision to veto the Euro treaty (which i agree with Cameron and admire him in that at least for standing alone) 1/26 now other Countries are finally finding a backbone.
And then every Lib/Dem MP abstaining from the vote in block because they put their own party interests first instead of voting with the Tories or the opposition.
Does this seem like a coalition to you.
Clegg had his chance to speak up and he declined, today he is hitting out at "xenophobic" comments why did he not speak through the ballot box.
Under Thatcher we were in recession and high unemployment, double didgit interest rates, i can remember at least 15%.
And then her Saviour  the Falklands War or should we call it a Conflict as Mrs T liked to call it, the same war that saved her bacon.  
Oh and the same war that her government helped start by withdrawing HMS Endurance.
After her re-election in 83 she set about destroying the unions oh and i almost forgot the same ( conflict) that She tried to Stitch the Troops up on their right to a war pension.
Reguarding the Labour years, they were trying to put things right after Thatcher Destroyed the heavy industry of this country.
It all went pear shaped after 9/11 the worlds stock markets have not been stable since that event and they not governments rule this world as is clear by the way the bankers get away with their bonuses.
Sadly "Money makes the world go around" .
You tell me what any Tory government has done for Wales? or Britain.
Ahem!! oh i almost forgot the poll tax wasn't it.
I worked in the pits from the age of 15 and i would be only to glad to be working there now.
I am a socialist (not a Communist) just incase someone thinks otherwise.
But i would vote for any Government that is visibly putting this country back on its feet whatever Party it may be.
I want a future for my Grandchildren the same as anyone else does.
When someone calls a whole Borough Corrupt they should at least have the decency to explain their remark.


Peter Walker ( who Thatcher disliked anyway ) opened up the (Heads of the) Valleys to commerce with his road-building strategy. How many firms moved up here then ?

They're not all bad.
Rocke

Re: soapbox

Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
Scargill destroyed the pits, not Lady T, and most people agree that it was high time to tame the unions.
Lady T was elected 3 times and largely at the pencil holding hands of ordinary working folk with common sense!
Anyway, do you really want generations of young men to end up with lung diseases?
Frankly the EU seems intent on centring the coal industry in Poland which is why there are also now no mines in the Czech Lands: a  deliberate act.
I certainly salute the generations of brave men who worked in the pits, but their demise was, I fear, inevitable.


Scargill didn't destroy the pits.
He failed to defend them successfully like Joe Gormley before him did.
Tapped into the loyalty of great human beings, split their inborn camaraderie when those with the sense to see that he was simply using the issue of pits and closures for his own political ends decided enough was enough and got hounded for it.

Scargill never had handouts from anyone did he ?
Did Scargill lose his house ?
Did he rely on hwyl to bring a bit of food to his table ?
Did HIS family suffer massive cutbacks in nutrition, their self-esteem shattered by having to depend on others, their neighbours and friends ?

Look at the Labour Party higher-ups around here over the years ?
A few disconcerting episodes around land acquisitions.
Peter 'two jobs' Law when he was both AM and MP, yet Labour have had 'two jobs' councillors - councillor and 'Town Clerk'.
Oh - and two very unsavoury episodes (25 years apart) of personal accounting irregularities.

I remember reading once that one knew 'the Tories' would screw the working classes. An awful lot of people around here seem to think all politicians around here do the same.

However, to people who still have some empathy toward the Labour Party I say this:

Better to have a true enemy than a false friend.
Rocke

Re: camron

fred probyn wrote:
Anthony earl,you must be liveing in a different world to us singing Camerons praises.Let him go down the pit and see how he performs.I doubt if he would be able to crawl along a coal face for 6 hours a day.He has never done a days work in his life.Dont tell me he cannot help who he is,he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth  and has never worked.His job before he went into politics was a PR consultant for a TV company.I wonder if he has ever had to strike for the right to work and got repaid by being charged at by mounted police.Ian Boco is right in what he said.


Nice to hear from you Fred.

However, you can substitute 'Miliband', 'Clegg', 'Nick Smith MP', 'Alun Davies AM' and many more for 'Cameron'.

Alun Davies is understudy for Agriculture, more akin to Aberystywth than Abertillery.

No doubt he'll have been down Big Pit I suppose.
Ian Jones

Peter Walker ( who Thatcher disliked anyway ) opened up the (Heads of the) Valleys to commerce with his road-building strategy. How many firms moved up here then ?

They're not all bad.

Agreed Rocke, you may have missed my comment on page 3.

"But i would vote for any Government that is visibly putting this country back on its feet whatever Party it may be".
I want a future for my Grandchildren the same as anyone else does.
After the Strike i never thought i would ever agree with anything the Tories say.
If it is for the good of the Country as a whole so be it.
But, and there is always a but they will have to do a darn sight better before i put my X in their box on my Ballot paper.
And on the subject of voting in elections, i think it should be made compulsory, we can't moan if we don't vote.
Ian

Scargill never had handouts from anyone did he ?
Did Scargill lose his house ?
Did he rely on hwyl to bring a bit of food to his table ?
Did HIS family suffer massive cutbacks in nutrition, their self-esteem shattered by having to depend on others, their neighbours and friends

Sustitute Scargill's name with that of just about every politician in the country.Just happens that the Tory's are the worst of a bad bunch,their current policy of redressing the economic balance is all about one thing protecting the interests of the already affluent.

There have to be changes to systems that are clearly not working but the arbituary smash and grab tactics being employed at the moment will lead to just one thing...more systems that will be even more broken.It's all about the I'm alright Jack attitude of Thatcherism.

Striking for the right to work is a contradiction in terms.

Watch this space on that one,millions unemployed with no prospect of employment.

Rolling Eyes
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

Striking for the right to work is futile nihilism.
What about working to maintain the right to work?
Good thing everyone in Abertillery doesn't hark back to 1920.
It'll soon be 2020.
Just off to Pentonville. Seriously helping a few lads in there to find work when they come out.
What a foul, evil Tory I am......................
A
Ian

Striking for the right to work is futile nihilism.

Striking is the course of action that is taken in most instances as a last resort when negotiations have failed due to one of the parties eg an employer being relauctant to talk or put a sensible offer on the table.In this instance making hundreds of thousands extra people unemployed through cutbacks in the public sector and attacking the sick and disabled is the futile action here.There are no replacement jobs for those who want to work and no plans that can be put into place in order to create them.


What about working to maintain the right to work?

Bit difficult unless you have a job in the first place.

BTW having not been born until well after 1920 it would be a bit difficult to hark back to it.From what I know about it in employment/financial terms I wouldn't want to anyway.   Laughing
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

it was the public sector workers who went on strike - those with jobs and who think the country owes them a llife time's employment.
That is to say that the state should actually employ tens of thousands of people it doesn't need, rather than just those it does need.
President Vaclav Havel has just died. Thanks to his bravery against the evils of socialism I am reunited with my Czech family - in fact could meet them for the first time in 1990.
I don't need any lectures from people who are constantly harking back to the methods/solutions advocated by the Labour Movement 80 years ago.  I know what my Czech cousins suffered for 50 years.
Socialism is dead. Can't understand why you fail to see the obvious.
A few years in Czecho(slovakia) would soon have changed your silly Valleys tune. Get real!
What you want is never coming back, so you might as well get used to it!
The state does not and can never create "the Good".
Ian

it was the public sector workers who went on strike - those with jobs and who think the country owes them a llife time's employment.

Perhaps you should research the reasons behind this strike before making an assertion about it that is way off the mark.All I'm advocating is a system of fairness whereby, a reasonable enough remuneration is paid in order to adequately support anyones self and/or family.If that's being unreasonable in your eyes then( although not agreeing with your politics ) I have misjudged you.The  philosophy of capitalism that you seem so in love with only does this for the priviliged minority.Why do you feel it is fair to penalise two thirds of society in order to sort out the mess made by the wealthy at the top.It is easy from a position whereby none of the cuts affect you to sit back and try to justify them.
fred probyn

Anthony Earl Williams,My letter writeing may not be as eloquent as yours but i can stand on my own two feet.I am of the elder generation I started work down the pit as a boy of 14 in1946.and compleated 38 years underground.I left the pit once for 2 years only to be called up for national service in 1950 to1952.then returned to mineing.I was born and brought up in Abertillery,but moved to Ynysddu in the war years.I am a third generation Salvationist,so you comments about prison visiting,visiting the old and lonely,I have on many many occasions encounterd Alcoholics,Drug Addicts and homeless people on hundreds of occasions.On Christmas Day these very people will be catered for here in Nuneaton by the SA and the local churches together.so please dont lecture me on careing for people.I do but i also have a social concience. and i care for these people.I would sooner see a alcoholic or drug addict accept jesus christ as their saviour a thousand times over than see this tory goverment worshiping the bankers and all their wealth.This week i have been priveliged to see the people of Nuneaton and Bedworth donate thousands to the SA and other organizations to poor familys who other wise on christmas morning would not have any presents at all.On a final note yes nuneaton and Bedworth have got Tory MPS for the first time in 32 years.but the strength of the locals feelings is that theses 2 MP will be out on their ears at the next elections..Nuneatons MP was going to work wonders when he was elected as leader of the council.But guess what he was out on his ear after 2 years in office and the tory councill is now back in opposition with 3 brothers on the tory council councillors.
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

You all seem obsessed with "the Tories"!
We aren't out to persecute the poor. It was Labour who abolished the 10p tax rate........
If it weren't for ordinary working people there would, logically never be a Conservative Government, and that obviously applies to the Coalition also.
I don't see how you can possibly know whether the eighteen and a half thousand people who elected your excellent Conservative MP regret their choice or not. Have you spoken to them all?
Anyway, seems we are ahead in the polls  again.
The Salvation Army is respected by almost everyone and does great humanitarian works; but you are not actually Christians because you do not have baptism or, for that matter, valid Orders.. That is not a spiteful remark on my part - it is the teaching of the Church (Catholic and Orthodox alike).  You do, I agree, put many Christians to shame, but you deceive people by pretending to be Christians when you are not!  
The presumption, anyway, is not in favour of "the left". Why should you have the monopoly of "doing good"?  
OK, so you worked in the mines. Therefore, certainly, you served your country valiantly when coal was so important.  But many, many of the Catholic miners in Poland have never been socialist, and that really is true!  The fight to destroy communism of any sort in Poland and Czechoslovakia came from ordinary working people with a better vision of a just society - the Catholic dock workers, particularly, in Poland, who would never dream of supporting socialism. Did old Michael Foot live among the workers?  Did he hell. He owned a multi million pound house in one of the most elegant roads in Hampstead!  As do all those lefty hypocrites in Labour's higher ranks. The only one I have any respect for is actually Gordon Brown!!
People like you have this warped idea about "social class" and the Labour party as the champion of the poor. It is all outdated, That is what millions of workers realise.
You say I write eloquently, or words to that effect.  Thank you.  But it all stems from having gone to Abertillery Grammar School and then Ebbw Vale Grammar School - both of which were destroyed by the Labour Party, thus taking away from thousands of "ordinary" boys and girls the chance to better themselves.
In my opinion it is the Labour Party which is the enemy of the people because without keeping them "in their place" there could never BE a Labour Government. We wicked Tories want everyone to better themselves, and there is more than one way of doing it. The state is NOT responsible for our destiny. But you just don't get it, do you?  Your battle really IS the battle of the past.  Aberetillery can't move on until it collectively acknowledges this.
Salute the old heroes, all now dead, as is their philosophy, but move on. Self help seems lacking in the Labour man's thoughts - but NOT in the thoughts of your leaders: oh, no!  They know where the purse strings are.  They'll be living in Hampstead and Primrose Hill while you all stay in Arael Street and moan!
Ian

What planet do you actually live on Anthony?

I suppose that the leaders of the Tory party don't live in the same affluent circumstances as Michael Foot?They obviously do and in most cases are far better off.Grammar education being removed takes away the chance for 'ordinary boys and girls' to better themselves..what about the fact that this chance should be available to all which is what comprehensive education represents.

You say Labour is not the champion of the poor,I would agree,however the Tory party are surely the champions of the rich and don't give a damn about not just the poor but everyone else that isn't viewed as being in their social class.All your eloquance has failed to hide this fact,the only ones to benefit from anything they put in place will be themselves.

'We are all in this together'...........don't make me laugh,throw away empty spin.   Rolling Eyes
fred probyn

Your remarks about salvationists not being christians are truly out of order.I suggest that you meet up with the officers in charge of Abertillery SA.They are ordained minsters,as are all SA officers.We have 12 doctrines in the SA .the 1st one is We believe that he scriptures of the old and new testaments were given by the inspiration of god.and that they only constitute the divine rule of christian faith and practice.
the 2nd one is we believe there is only one god,who is infinitley perfect,the preserver and govenor of all things and who is the only proper object of religious worship
we believe that there are three persons in the godhead-the father-theson-and the holy ghost.Undivided in essence and co-equal in power and glory.
we believe that in the person of jesus christthe divine and human natures are united so that he is truely and properly god and truely and properly man.
That my friend is just 3 of our doctrines
If you need to know the rest i will gladly give them to you..for myself I do believe i will believe that Jesus died for me.it was on the cross he shed his blood and that he died for me.
The SA is a recognised religiouse body the same as the church,but we dont do the sacraments the same way as other churches of other denominations do.but our teachings are inspired by our christian faith.I pray that you will go to one of the churches together meetings you will have your eyes opened.
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

But Tories don't spout socialist trash on one hand and live in a champagne way which they hope the 'hoi poloi' won't pick up!
As for Grammar Schools, here we go again.
The 'comprehensive' system has been an abject failure. (We now also know that the exam questions are leaked....)
The Czech education system is, in my opinion, more sensible than any other I know.  There are Zakladni Skoly  (Basic Schools - like junior comps) for all till the age of 13. Then Gymnasia (Grammars) for the most academic, and technical schools for others. Various other types of school too, which I haven't mentioned.  Nobody need fail or is excluded - but the Grammar Schools are tops and lead thousands to a better life.

Every boy or girl has the right to go to a Grammar School where the academic standard is very high. So if you do choose to "give it a go" you may or may not succeed. But nobody is denied the chance. Pupils are counselled about their 'best bet'.
This is entirely different from the comprehensive system here  and extremely effective. I have taught in all sorts of Czech schools over the years and know what I am talking about. NO discipline problems there, even in the poorer parts of Prague!  It was a delight to teach every Czech child I have ever known. In London I would be too frightened now to go into 90% of secondary schools (Been there too)
Am this evening grieving for my hero, Vaclav Havel - a "working man" (whatever that means now) who lead the Czech people from socialist tyranny to freedom.
Sorry if I don't understand dear, old Abertillery in your terms. My roots are half there, but half Anglo-Czech too.  And I prefer my broader sweep of European events to the outmoded (and rather sad) opinions of the Abertillery Labour supporters.
Anthony (Antonin)
Vaclav Havel +RIP.  Dekujeme za vsechno!
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

Fred, you have said it.
"We don't do the Sacraments......."   but that is the raison d'etre of the Church.  The Sacraments,
You know that Christ bled to death so that you may have life hereafter - and because you believe in Him, you will, because without Christ there is no salvation. You are blessed because you know it.
But it is the case that your denomination is, strictly speaking, not Christian, It is not out of order to tell you that - it is kindness.
"Ordained" ministers do not necessarily mean validity.  The Anglicans have what they call priests, but the Church has condemned Anglican "orders" as null and void.  My best friends are Methodists but of course, good Christians though they be, they have no valid Orders.  These are possessed alone by the Catholic Church and the Holy Orthodox.
I really can't give you a 4 hour lecture here on Catholic Truth!
Our own 'Salvation Army'  groups are, I suppose, the  Knights of St. Columba and the Vincent de Paul Society.
Your SA was invented in the 19th Century.  The Catholic Church was founded by our Divine Lord Who commanded us to go into all the world and baptise in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.  Your SA does not baptise and is not regarded as Christian!  You may put us to shame with your secular acts of human goodness (so do some of my Jewish friends) but you are not part of the Church!
I would be false to you by being polite and saying otherwise.
I know 2 people who were brought up in the Salvation Army and who eventually found the Church. I shall remember you at tomorrow's Mass.
In Christ and His holy Mother,
+Anthony
David

I think i should point out fred that earl williams is a self styled bishop.Who made him a bishop?
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

you should realise, that there are legal implications in this and the Administrator has already warned of this.
David

Well sue. Who the hell are you to moralise. Your a disgrace to the catholic church. And the admin removed my post before wrongly in my opinion because what i pasted was and is in the public domain. Allegedly you dont even have a church "bishop".
Rocke

IAN(boco)jones wrote:
Peter Walker ( who Thatcher disliked anyway ) opened up the (Heads of the) Valleys to commerce with his road-building strategy. How many firms moved up here then ?

They're not all bad.

Agreed Rocke, you may have missed my comment on page 3.

"But i would vote for any Government that is visibly putting this country back on its feet whatever Party it may be".
I want a future for my Grandchildren the same as anyone else does.
After the Strike i never thought i would ever agree with anything the Tories say.
If it is for the good of the Country as a whole so be it.
But, and there is always a but they will have to do a darn sight better before i put my X in their box on my Ballot paper.
And on the subject of voting in elections, i think it should be made compulsory, we can't moan if we don't vote.


I quite agree Ian, especially with your comment about compulsory voting. I've another view on that, and it is that voting is an acknowledgement of the sacrifice and hardships endured by our forbears to ensure we remain a democracy.

The worst thing Thatcher introduced was negative politics, now people regard politicians - indeed it is the political way now - as rubbishing the opposition. Look what Labour's bunch of amateurs have been trying to do to me for nearly 4 years. Look how they've made BG look useless, when I can tell you that BG is not in anywhere near the mess it's portrayed to be. We continue to get WG funding to run pilot schemes and are looked on as best practice in some areas of operation.

My point about Peter Walker was that 1) he was anti-Thatcher ( so had to do some good ); 2) a Conservative who had done something good for Wales; and 3) Welsh.
SonOfACynic

Well fair play A.E.W. thank you very much................


You've reminded me why i don't go to church!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anthony Earl-Williams

soapbox

Every saint has a past - and every sinner has a future  (Oscar Wilde)
Rocke

David wrote:
I think i should point out fred that earl williams is a self styled bishop.Who made him a bishop?


Anthony Earl-Williams wrote:
you should realise, that there are legal implications in this and the Administrator has already warned of this.


David wrote:
Well sue. Who the hell are you to moralise. Your a disgrace to the catholic church. And the admin removed my post before wrongly in my opinion because what i pasted was and is in the public domain. Allegedly you dont even have a church "bishop".


Now gents, please ?

This is one of the most interesting threads we've had on here, more and more are joining in.

I'm more than happy that it's deviated from the original post, as long as we don't bring The Inquisition (law, not admin) down on us.

Now, where were we......?
Rocke

Oh yes..................

SonOfACynic wrote:
Well fair play A.E.W. thank you very much................


You've reminded me why i don't go to church!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You could always try The Citadel.

The SA invite 'The Legion' every Remembrance Sunday and I'm surprised at just how much social and socialising work just a small town troop (if that's the word) has running.

One of the salts of the Earth, the Salvation Army.

They probably epitomise what we hoped Labour MPs and The Party would be like.
Btw at the next local elections, any Labour Councillor electred will be giving 2% of YOUR money to The Party, that's £260/yr min.
Not bad, get a few of the old boys elected and swell party funds by over £1,000 for each of them over a 4-year term.
martyn142

I would like to make a couple of points:

1. While there have obviously been often wide differences between Tories and Labour in the past - not least of course during the Thatcher years, when Labour moved left and the Conservatives the opposite direction - I think if you were shown each party's manifesto these days you'd find it at least a bit difficult to tell which was which. There are clearly some differences but it's little wonder the electorate has become apathetic. At least Thatcher and Foot gave us real alternatives.

2. While I'd concede the 'socialist' experiments in the East were failures, I'd hardly say the last few hundred years of capitalism have been a roaring success either. To mention just a few of the less savoury aspects, we've had the horrors of slavery and perpetual wars, regular economic crises when the whole thing has threatened to collapse in on itself. Today capitalism - which I think anyone would have to accept is the prevailing economic system - lets us lucky Westerners sit at our keyboards arguing over 'angels on pinheads' while every second people in other parts of the world die of starvation and preventable disease. You'd think they would have perfected it by now if that wasn't the way capitalism expected the world to be wouldn't you?

3. I can't comment on how Christian the Sally Army is. However, as a devout atheist it is the only religious charity I regularly contribute to and one of the few of any description for which I make a point of crossing the road to put money into its collection boxes.
Phillip T. Small

There is NO God, NO Jesus, NO whatever you want to call him or her.. You are ALL disillusioned....... Death is DARK... There is NO afterlife.. Get a grip........

There are VERY few politicians, Tory, Labour or Lib Dem who are NOT financially well off or who have had proper jobs..

So people were miners, so what !! People were steel and metal workers, shipbuilders, et al..........  Workers priced themselves out of jobs, NOT the politicians.... Scargill lives like a king as do most union leaders.. Just like politicians I suppose...

Long live the king.. Coal is DEAD........

I await the reply from whoever it is that has been granted the valley brain cell today.....
martyn142

Phillip T. Small wrote:
I await the reply from whoever it is that has been granted the valley brain cell today.....


I probably ought to be offended but that is actually quite funny  Laughing
Phillip T. Small

Thank you.... Sometimes this board does get a little heavy nes pas ?

Wink
fred probyn

I would like to say thank you to Bocco,David,Martyn,Ian and Rocky for your kind words of support that you have given me and .Yes The Salvation Army is a christain movement,and we give our hearts to God and Hand to Man.I have no qualms about helping out the poor,the lonley,or the homeless people i have meet over the years and i give thanks to the people who give us donations to support our work.We are a none profit  makeing organization and rely on the public for their support.I would like you to know that the army is a none profit making organization.I think its about 80 pence in the pound is used to help the people we get comeing to us,and i can assure you that they come from all walks of life.Even the Reliance Bank of the SA is a none profit makeing bank because it ploughs all its profits back into the work of the SA.I can think of no one else who works that  way,Any way i would like to wish you all a happy and blessed christmas,Blessings to you all.
Rocke

Phillip T. Small wrote:
There is NO God, NO Jesus, NO whatever you want to call him or her.. You are ALL disillusioned....... Death is DARK... There is NO afterlife.. Get a grip........

There are VERY few politicians, Tory, Labour or Lib Dem who are NOT financially well off or who have had proper jobs..

So people were miners, so what !! People were steel and metal workers, shipbuilders, et al..........  Workers priced themselves out of jobs, NOT the politicians.... Scargill lives like a king as do most union leaders.. Just like politicians I suppose...

Long live the king.. Coal is DEAD........

I await the reply from whoever it is that has been granted the valley brain cell today.....


People have committed crimes - heinous crimes - over the ages.
Over a century ago it was found that every individual has unique fingerprints. Years after their crimes people were able to be convicted because of dactylograms (one for those who Want to be a Millionnaire ).
Many criminals were brought to book as a result.

People then committed heinous crimes without leaving fingerprints.
Around 30 years ago it was found that every individual has almost unique DNA, and positive traces of it can be left.
Many criminals were brought to book as a result.

Now we have developed 'proximity DNA' and other advancements.
Many criminals - including those who murdered Stephen Lawrence - are being brought to book as a result.

Suppose that at sometime in the future Man(kind) becomes so aware that God was not simply an astronaut but is a Super-being who Millennia ago touched our planet, and came up a brilliant way to make us behave in a fit and proper way to each other ie. do unto others as you would they do unto you*, and that strategy was that if you do so, you - who Nature decrees will have a finite existence - will live forever, in an afterlife.

We live in the latest age of advancement. We cannot tell if 'God', 'Allah', 'Jehovah' is a myth, so dare we deny it ?

* On that point, 'do what you hope someone would do for you', between 8 and 9pm yesterday, 19th Dec, the lights at Mousehole Harbour were dimmed, in deference to the men of the Solomon Browne who, having already rescued 4 stricken sailors, set out for a second time in the face of Nature's fury, to save 'those in peril of the sea'. They never made it back alive.

It matters not whether you believe, it's totally about whether you follow the moral of the story.    
Carolyn

No Nativity this Christmas in Parliament.

The High Court has ruled that there cannot be a Nativity Scene this Christmas season

This isn't for any religious reason or for fear of offending other ethnic groups -  they simply have not been able to find

Three Wise Men in the government.

The search for a virgin continues.

There has been no problem, however,

finding enough asses to fill the stable.  Laughing
Rocke

Re: No Nativity this Christmas in Parliament.

Carolyn wrote:
The High Court has ruled that there cannot be a Nativity Scene this Christmas season

This isn't for any religious reason or for fear of offending other ethnic groups -  they simply have not been able to find

Three Wise Men in the government.

The search for a virgin continues.

There has been no problem, however,

finding enough asses to fill the stable.  Laughing


"Fear of upsetting other ethnic groups" ?!
This is a CHRISTIAN country.

And that means we tolerate, and should show respect for, all. Every single human being, regardless of their colour, creed, or any other attribute.

That's why we don't cull politicians.
Phillip T. Small

mmmmmm.... Culling politicians... I'm up for that, where do I put my X ?....
Razz
Ian Jones

To Phillip T Small.
.. | .... .- ...- . | - .... . | -... .-. .- .. -. -.-. . .-.. .-.. | - --- -.. .- -.-- | - .- ..-. ..-. | ..--.. | | -- . .-. .-. -.-- | -.-. .... .-. .. ... - -- .- ... | - --- | -.-- --- ..- | .- -. -.. | .- .-.. .-.. | --- -. | .- -... . .-. | --- -. .-.. .. -. . | ..--.. |
Rocke

IAN(boco)jones wrote:
To Phillip T Small.
.. | .... .- ...- . | - .... . | -... .-. .- .. -. -.-. . .-.. .-.. | - --- -.. .- -.-- | - .- ..-. ..-. | ..--.. | | -- . .-. .-. -.-- | -.-. .... .-. .. ... - -- .- ... | - --- | -.-- --- ..- | .- -. -.. | .- .-.. .-.. | --- -. | .- -... . .-. | --- -. .-.. .. -. . | ..--.. |


Is there a (ghost of a ) detective in the house ?
Dave

It might be     I say Might  


       I HAVE THE BRAINCELL TODAY TAFF ? MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU AND ALL ON ABER ONLINE ?              
Phillip T. Small

Boco must have been a Teleg/WOP in his time ? Surprised)
Rocke

Or a relative of Inspector Morse....................

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