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Rocke

Rocke's Final Role

"How's it going Del?" said I as I walked into the counting hall.

'Not sure Dai, the votes are all over the place. I get 5 on some, none on another and it's like that with you from what I see'.

Unfortunately what wasn't realised until later was a mass of block voting had taken place, where all three Labour candidates had a vote on a ballot paper.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that if, say, 250 people voted for me and me only then I'm 250 ahead of every other candidate. ( It's the reason why I've christened one particular candidate 'One Vote' - they asked it in both 2008 and 2012 ).
If anyone has followed the trends you'll see it repeated in almost every Ward - significant, if not substantial - gaps between Labour and non-Labour voting blocs.

This was Blaenau Gwent's first 'battle by post' as I term it.
Cwmtillery has over 780 Postal Voters, about 25% of the electorate. Postal Voters obviously have a very high turnout ( 90% + ? ), so capturing, say, 75% of these puts you in a very good position, in fact you already have 18% of the total vote capacity.
With an average turnout of around 30-35% that means you're more than halfway there.
Labour were clued up on this and targetted the postal voters personally. I don't, out of principle, do door knocking.

The rest is history. Moving to the future I think that postal voters will from now on be bombarded with candidates and parties as soon as the postal votes are due for delivery, because this election has shown that a concentrated effort over the immediate days around 20th April produced wonders.

I've used that word because so many people in the past day or so have used the word 'flabbergasted' but they all have one thing in common as far as I can see - they voted at a Polling Station.

Penybont Scout Hut had a very high turnout, probably over 50%, and given the messages of support Delwyn and I had received, due to the work we had done with the various Tenants &
Residents over the past 4 years, and Alma St being my 'home patch' this augured well - it equates to around 350 - 400 votes (inc postal ones). A 70% success rate would give us around 250, but even that is only about 8% of the total votes available, so we would still be 10% - or over 300 votes - behind.

I definitely think that postal voters won't be as shocked by the result as 'ballot box' ones are.

Anyway, that's all academic.

So, the end of an era !!

It's like finishing down the pit, is the way I'd describe it.
Although I've never worked in the mines I can't number the times I've heard people say how glad they were to come out of there.
The work was hard and the thing that kept one going was that you were earning a crust for the family.

It wasn't physically like that for me but the way I approached it, and the end of it now, does make me feel that way.

*  I've had four years of virtually no private social life at all. Everywhere I frequent it's been 'Rocke, what's going on with this?'....'what's happening in Church St?'.......'why are the council doing this?'......'what are they doing that for?'.

*  I've had four years of having to straighten spin out, informing people and in doing so getting embroiled in tit-for-tat, Tweedledee and Tweedledum' politics while the people who should have been defending the council and administration pontificated.

*  I've had to launch attacks because of the impotency and/or reluctance of others to do what is best for this Borough. It's not nice being a political assassin.

*  I've had to lock horns with grade one planks who think it clever to make judgement on my 'job' and how I do it, without even knowing what it entails, who decide to do it in public - usually in pubs and clubs - and then get very angry when I hit back.
They think 'politicians' will simply take it, worrying about votes, and too late realise that I'm not a politician.
Hit me, I hit back - hard.
Can you imagine someone saying to a chemist 'why are you giving methadone to drug addicts ? Don't tell me it's because the doctor prescribed it, you're the one giving it out. You're all the same !' ?

*  I've had 4 years trying to persuade people that they are in a rut and not 'in the groove', to modernise or die. On Thursday night I watched a lot of them in their dying moments, and most regrettably I enjoyed it. Others I felt sorry for but again had they have been supportive and not just been receptive perhaps the result would have been different. We are after all masters of our own fate.

So, what of mine then ?
I am very satisfied, in fact tremendously so.
I said I was going to be different, to take an avant garde approach to representation of the people, and it's because of the success of that strategy that I've been able to identify the issues above.
It has, without doubt, been an overwhelming success.

*  Debate has been sparked.
*  People are more interested in the way we are governed.
*  People are more demanding of their representatives.
*  People are far better informed regarding decisions that affect their lives.

The measure of that success will be this:

Will there times in the future when people say 'Rocke did that', or 'Rocke would have done that', or 'that wouldn't have happened with Rocke', 'Rocke was always around and we'd always be able to see him about something' ?

Because if people refer to this past four years in those terms then I will have left a mark, and perhaps those that have come after will follow the footprints I've left.

And with that I leave to start something that should have happened a few years ago, a metaphorphosis we all have to go through but some to a greater extent than others.

It's time to make the transition from warrior to elder.

Cheers.
aber42

Rocke

I don't live in Abertillery but have enjoyed your postings on here -sorry to here election result - pity there are not more politicians and councillors in Office with your attitude
John69

I/we have also read this forum off and on for some time and been a topic of discussion in our house. I have to say our household is dissapointed to see you (Rocky) and Delwyn go.

Everyone have been saying they are shocked, people did expect Tim to get on but not the other two labour candidates. Everyone are saying they voted Rock and Del, despite the many leaflets from Labour, as you both done so much for Cwmtillery; and the informtion in Labours leaflets didnt apply to neither of you. Very sorry and shocked to see you both go. Just hope the new councillors will be as active and involved as you both were.

Very, very shocked.
Bertie22

Rocke's farewell

Anybody can canvass the postal voters if they are working their campaign efficiently.
This has only happened to you because of the national swing. There is always "next time".
There's nothing very surprising about Labour regaining a council in one of its old heartlands, surely. You say you don't knock on doors? A mistake!
As for your block vote argument, well there's going to be a block vote, big or small, for any political party.
Sorry you lost. Don't give up.
But looking back at many older postings, I feel you were a bit too certain of victory, and I don't know why. After all, the majority of Cwmtillery voters don't even follow this site, I suppose. Bit of wasted energy, maybe, that could have gone into door knocking? Many older people have postal votes and they, above all, appreciate a visit.
Have a rest, start again - and win next time, when the new Labour Council will have made another mess of things!
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!
John69

Some valid points made but most people dont like being bothered at their homes especially the elder. Its a very close community and as I live in Cwmtillery myself I know this is the case. Plus everyone knows everyone and evryone is saying they voted Rocky and Del, it is very strange, even alot of the elderly/postal voters are saying the same (and for Tim). Rocke and Del are very well known in the area and dealt with the local people daily and I can say myself have dealt with them and have no complaints.

The postal votes must be a grey area, are they counted the same time and place as the other votes and under the same supervision, I dont know. But I have to say again, its a huge shock amongst the Cwmtillery people and those who voted.
Bertie22

Rocke

John,
    Postal votes counted the day before - and certainly under supervision, as with main count.
Some people are now saying that there are too many postal votes and they should be restricted again to the people who genuinely need them, not those who are too lazy to walk to the polling station!  I suppose that's a matter of opinion.
Mr. Rocke will live to fight another day.
John69

Thank you for answering that question. Its very interesting!!!!!, why count the postal votes the day before??????? Are the candidates told of the postal results. Why cant the postal votes be counted the exact same time as the other votes on the 5th, the same time, under the exact same people; with candidates present (Bertie, thats not a question directly to you, just talking in general).

Yes you are right, Rocky can fight again.

Well, its all different councillors now for the next few years. At least they are all Labour Councillors, wouldnt want to see any other Party get the seats, that would be a nightmare.
Bertie22

Rocke

John,
yes, the candidates are entitled to see the postal votes being counted.
The main parties have their Agents who make sure all is OK.
Any postal vote can even be taken to the polling station by close of poll on the day! They are then counted with the main poll.
If the top Labour man in Cwmtillery got 900, then people must have thought he was good! He did really well.
Apparently 2 full ballot boxes in London for the London mayoral election were "lost" under a table till somebody found them. Makes you wonder!
Jim Nicholas

As an exile who values his Abertillery roots and who has been delighted with the insight into local politics that Rocke has allowed us. I am shocked and totally mystified to learn that he is longer a councillor. I hope sincerely that he will stand for office again for I have no doubt that the electorate will soon realise the error they have made when they return to the abyss of a Labour dominated council.
John69

Dont get me wrong, I dont question Tims results (he got the most), locals dont question it neither, his wasnt a shock, he is new to the role, not been a councillor before or stood before, a very nice man and wish him the best. Its the other two which people are baffled about, just dont understand it.

Anyway,thats me done on the subject now, but it is a shock, not what people expected (the two seats that is)
martyn142

I'm very sorry that Rockey has lost his seat. I wrote on this forum when he was elected (and before he started posting on here I think) that he would shake them up in the Civic Centre and he has, I believe, done just that.

What Rockey's stint on the council should have done is make Labour pull its socks up and not take the electorate for granted as it has done for decades. However, Hedley McCarthy's comment along the lines of "normal service being resumed" suggests that might not be the case.

To be honest, and this is something else I said previously when the Independents took control, I don't expect a return to Labour control to have much of an effect on my life. There is not a lot of difference politically between Labour and Independents for the most part (there are exceptions of course). And I suppose the Independents' lack of experience is more or less balanced out by Labour's laziness and incompetence so "plus ca change" as someone else said above.

Anyway thanks very much Rocke for your input here and of course at the Civic Centre over the last few years. Now you can join us "back-benchers"  Laughing
Ian Jones

I'm not in the Cwmtillery ward as you know Rocke, but i wish you all the best for the future.
Take some time out and come back fighting (you are Rocke after all) And maybe set your sight's higher next time people like you are needed in politics.
And also Congrats to Cllr Nigel Daniels for being re-elected.
853 OKG

I always vote ,I go to the polling station and voice my opinion regarding the candidates in my own particular fashion, which basically means I do not rate any of them. Politicians they promise us the earth, yet when they are elected they can not deliver us a grain of sand!  Even though Martyn 142 berates most every post I do, I would vote for him regardless of which his political persuasion was, you are obviously a smart guy, why not put your name forward?
stoob

" Final Dai" ? take a time out some of those voted off were in their late 70's early 80's. I would suggest times on your side and a break will help recharge the batteries.
It's not ageist or criticising the postal vote but I suggested to the mother in law a few weeks ago that she would vote for Gary Glitter if he stood for labour, she replied who's Gary Glitter.
Ah well back to helping me with this temperemental computer.
ozzy wasborn

door knocking

Very Happy

rocke , what principle stops you from doorknocking? Don't want to use up door bell batteries? For  someone wanting to get elected, i would have thought it mandatory! And a 37 % turnout ? FFS xxx
Birdy

martyn142 wrote:
I'm very sorry that Rockey has lost his seat. I wrote on this forum when he was elected (and before he started posting on here I think) that he would shake them up in the Civic Centre and he has, I believe, done just that.

What Rockey's stint on the council should have done is make Labour pull its socks up and not take the electorate for granted as it has done for decades. However, Hedley McCarthy's comment along the lines of "normal service being resumed" suggests that might not be the case.

To be honest, and this is something else I said previously when the Independents took control, I don't expect a return to Labour control to have much of an effect on my life. There is not a lot of difference politically between Labour and Independents for the most part (there are exceptions of course). And I suppose the Independents' lack of experience is more or less balanced out by Labour's laziness and incompetence so "plus ca change" as someone else said above.

Anyway thanks very much Rocke for your input here and of course at the Civic Centre over the last few years. Now you can join us "back-benchers" †Laughing


Hiya Martyn, as 853 OKG has said, you come across as a pretty smart guy. Can you help me, Ihave been looking everywhere for coverage of the Blaenau Gwent results. I read the article in yesterdays Argus and couldn't find anything much in the Western Mail. You quote Hedley MacCarthy as saying "normal service being resumed" Where did you read this (or similar) or was it on TV or radio perhaps? Can you oblige because I'm interested in what went on. Cheers.   Smile
stoob

I read the Argus on line and have it listed in my favourites.
I saw what Hedley had to say so find it strange it wasn't in the actual newspaper.
Birdy

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/...egains_Blaenau_Gwent___heartland/

Thanks Stoob, but I'd already read this online version and I couldn't find that particular comment and I still can't.  Surprised
Perhaps Martyn can enlighten me. You never know he might have heard it somewhere else, like the Echo or something.
Rocke

Re: Rocke

aber42 wrote:
I don't live in Abertillery but have enjoyed your postings on here -sorry to here election result - pity there are not more politicians and councillors in Office with your attitude


Hello aber42.

That's very generous of you to say so.
Thank you so much.
Rocke

John69 wrote:
I/we have also read this forum off and on for some time and been a topic of discussion in our house. I have to say our household is dissapointed to see you (Rocky) and Delwyn go.

Everyone have been saying they are shocked, people did expect Tim to get on but not the other two labour candidates. Everyone are saying they voted Rock and Del, despite the many leaflets from Labour, as you both done so much for Cwmtillery; and the informtion in Labours leaflets didnt apply to neither of you. Very sorry and shocked to see you both go. Just hope the new councillors will be as active and involved as you both were.

Very, very shocked.


Hello John69.

Thanks very much for that.
I think I can speak for Delwyn and say we had an awful lot of support from people and organisations over the past 4 years and it's nice to see that is still the case after the event.

I think our legacy will be motivation for the new councillors. As I've said, will there come a time when people say 'Rocke and Del always did this....' ? The new councillors have a standard to achieve, and they'll have that incentive throughout their term, which can only be a good thing for the Ward.

Thanks again.
Rocke

Re: Rocke's farewell

Bertie22 wrote:
Anybody can canvass the postal voters if they are working their campaign efficiently.
This has only happened to you because of the national swing. There is always "next time".
There's nothing very surprising about Labour regaining a council in one of its old heartlands, surely. You say you don't knock on doors? A mistake!
As for your block vote argument, well there's going to be a block vote, big or small, for any political party.
Sorry you lost. Don't give up.
But looking back at many older postings, I feel you were a bit too certain of victory, and I don't know why. After all, the majority of Cwmtillery voters don't even follow this site, I suppose. Bit of wasted energy, maybe, that could have gone into door knocking? Many older people have postal votes and they, above all, appreciate a visit.
Have a rest, start again - and win next time, when the new Labour Council will have made another mess of things!
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!


Hi Bertie22 and thanks for the support.
It wasn't (meant to be) confidence. I did exactly the same this time as the last election (including not meaning to send out a second leaflet but had to due to naughty things going on !).
You're quite right about not that many Cwmtillery people being on this forum, but what I express on here I express in public - and I'm out every night (and day at the moment, courtesy of my employer) of the week.
As a councillor I probably dealt with perhaps 10% of the electorate, their issues and problems, but I must have interacted with well over 50% of them. Although some are postal voters the majority are 'ballot boxers'.

In the past days they are echoing the sentiments being expressed here, so I don't think I got it that unbalanced.  
I don't intend to stand again, but you comments would have been helpful if I did, so thanks very much for them.
Rocke

Jim Nicholas wrote:
As an exile who values his Abertillery roots and who has been delighted with the insight into local politics that Rocke has allowed us. I am shocked and totally mystified to learn that he is longer a councillor. I hope sincerely that he will stand for office again for I have no doubt that the electorate will soon realise the error they have made when they return to the abyss of a Labour dominated council.


Thanks very much Jim.
It's nice to know that part of the plan worked !

Seriously though, it was of course my intention to open it up as it were and I take satisfaction in having done that and delight that people such as you have taken the time to show that.

Best wishes.
Rocke

martyn142 wrote:
I'm very sorry that Rockey has lost his seat. I wrote on this forum when he was elected (and before he started posting on here I think) that he would shake them up in the Civic Centre and he has, I believe, done just that.

What Rockey's stint on the council should have done is make Labour pull its socks up and not take the electorate for granted as it has done for decades. However, Hedley McCarthy's comment along the lines of "normal service being resumed" suggests that might not be the case.

To be honest, and this is something else I said previously when the Independents took control, I don't expect a return to Labour control to have much of an effect on my life. There is not a lot of difference politically between Labour and Independents for the most part (there are exceptions of course). And I suppose the Independents' lack of experience is more or less balanced out by Labour's laziness and incompetence so "plus ca change" as someone else said above.

Anyway thanks very much Rocke for your input here and of course at the Civic Centre over the last few years. Now you can join us "back-benchers" †Laughing


Thanks Martyn.

I don't what to launch into an analysis of the issues, mainly because it would rub salt into many wounded people, those who regard being a councillor as being a politician, whose only 'job' is getting re-elected every 4 years.

Imagine if I had to be interviewed for Councillor, and the panel asked 'how do you see this role?'. You can imagine my reply, but could you imagine what the panel would think of it ???

I never needed to be re-elected, as a lot of people did, and I believe that I was still the only candidate in the counting hall who wasn't concerned about their personal result. The job is done simply by standing, and giving people options.

The big disappointment for me (perversely) is not being re-elected with a big increase in votes.
If that had happened then everything I wanted from the past 4 years would have been achieved.
The message to every councillor would have been that the public were screaming out for my approach to representation.
I take great satisfaction that the messages here have proved I had the approach people want but it's the wider public and the result that counts unfortunately.
Now the politicians have won because no matter how well - and apparently how successfully - a councillor performs politics takes over.
My successors have to be given a chance to fill my boots and follow my footprints but if they decide not to what happens next time anyway ?
If they do then I'm more than happy and the people of Cwmtillery will be.

Who knows, at the next elections I might be voting for them !

I won't be on the backbenches Martyn.
There's a small amount of unfinished business but after that there'll be no political sniping from me. I'm not looking to get back into it, and despite the letters etc. from some I don't thirst for publicity.

Thanks again for the comments.
Rocke

IAN(boco)jones wrote:
I'm not in the Cwmtillery ward as you know Rocke, but i wish you all the best for the future.
Take some time out and come back fighting (you are Rocke after all) And maybe set your sight's higher next time people like you are needed in politics.
And also Congrats to Cllr Nigel Daniels for being re-elected.


Thanks Ian.

I won't be back.
I'm not a political animal in the sense that I ever intended making a career out of being a councillor.
I've had a job to do, I've done it my way (oops...now I've done it). About 6 months after the last election I thought I'd bitten off more than I could chew but I think it's fair to say that if anyone had a doubt I ate it up and spat it out. There's many posts on here that show I took the blows and did it my way.

Smile

Thanks again Ian, much appreciated.
Rocke

stoob wrote:
" Final Dai" ? take a time out some of those voted off were in their late 70's early 80's. I would suggest times on your side and a break will help recharge the batteries.
It's not ageist or criticising the postal vote but I suggested to the mother in law a few weeks ago that she would vote for Gary Glitter if he stood for labour, she replied who's Gary Glitter.
Ah well back to helping me with this temperemental computer.


Thanks for that stoob.
I'm not a career politician, and indeed not a politician at all.

To win an election after this postal voters have to be targetted, and that means going against my principles and door-knocking, unless I can get every postal voter onto 'Dai's electoral database' and spam them all to death.  Very Happy
I'm not driven by the possibilities of grandeur, social climbing etc.
As I've said, representation of the people, done in a way they want, is mentally like working in a mine - my apologies if anyone thinks this demeans miners, it doesn't - you put up with it because you have to, you look back and you've really hated every minute but you have a pride that a) you've done something not every - perhaps many - people could put up with; and b) you've been able to provide support for 'the family'.

That's exactly how I feel.
Today's my last day as a councillor (I think - there's a small overlap) and I might just celebrate.

I hope the band's good tonight !!!

Thanks.

PS catch me early if you want advice you can understand !!!
Rocke

Re: door knocking

ozzy wasborn wrote:
Very Happy

rocke , what principle stops you from doorknocking? Don't want to use up door bell batteries? For †someone wanting to get elected, i would have thought it mandatory! And a 37 % turnout ? FFS xxx


Hello ozzy.

I didn't need to do it last time.
However, I think there's been a huge upturn in PVs, so to be honest you might well be right.

Mind you, I was driven by the need to be elected. I hope you understand that - perhaps naively - I stood and said 'this is what I'm about, vote for me if you want'.
I - again perhaps naively - didn't look at it as someone wanting my job.
People have their own minds, and as long as they made their own minds up that's it.

I might as well be blunt ( though I'm trying to make the change, as it were ) - if people get persuaded by doorstep salesmen and the goods aren't as described then that's an issue for them.  

An interesting point about the turnout.
If it was 37% then postal votes accounted for about 65% (assuming around 90% of PVs were returned).
That's not far off the split in the vote as it happens.

In fact, it's a good point, not just interesting.
I'm going to be presumptuous and say I sense a certain frustration in your words.

Thanks for the support.
Saeson

Rocke,

You done good. You don`t need me to tell you that you and your colleagues suffered at the hands of an anti-Government vote. I saw a Labour ad in the Gazette this week about sending a message to Cameron and his ilk. What that has to do with street lighting and leisure centres beats the hell outta me.

I`d like to think that those people poking their fingers at you down the pub will be doing the same to your successors. This time you can do some of the poking, with the luxury of being able to pick your fights. Over the years (not just the last 4, I hasten to add) it has become apparent to me that there are some genuinely unintelligent people in charge of our streets, our schools etc, which is troubling. I can think of one in particular who is clearly a bit thick.

I hope you can be a thorn in their sides; the Labour party has a slick PR machine, something the Independents sorely lacked.  They need to be poked and maybe, just maybe, you`ll decide to have another crack at what has at many times undoubtedly been a totally thankless job, but one where you have genuinely believed you could make a difference. You did make a difference.

ps some of your posts were a bit rambling and you took the bait too often (even more than me), but I guess your head`s not quite all there are 2am  Smile
Rocke

The 2am ones after March 2010 would be - I came off shift then, so it wasn't after work but after the pub, I cannot tell a lie Saeson !

Thanks for showing that I did it right (overall anyway). You're spot on about the PR machine. Although I don't want to rake over things too much 'they' were told, warned and little short of cajoled but still didn't have the nous to become politically active, presumably for fear of playing into Labour's hands and being classed as a party by any other name.

I continue to maintain ( to 'them' ) that the grouping should have been branded and marketed as an alliance of strong, like-minded people. Instead it came across as a bunch of novices unable to make decisions led by someone completely out of their depth.  

There won't be much finger poking because you won't see them out, not after the first time they get bitten anyway.
But everyone should at least wait and see what happens.

At least wait until the first time someone says 'when Rocke was councillor....'.

As for being a thorn, there's a little unfinished business and that might show there's still a bit of the warrior in me.

Thanks again for the comments, they're much appreciated.
martyn142

Hello Birdy - I misquoted Hedley. He didn't refer to "business as usual" but "returned to normality", although I think I got the essence of what he was saying correct. Here's the link

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news...gains-the-council-91466-30899426/

853 OKG - I'm flattered by your comments but I can't think of anything worse than spending a few years among those people. In any case my job wouldn't allow it really as it wouldn't be too easy to nip back home to Ebbw Vale from Bristol for a meeting. Laughing †And if I berate you I think that 9 times out of 10 you are looking for a reaction and maybe I fall for it more than most †Wink
Eddie legge

Insulting to the elderly

Birdy 23, My wife and I like countless other postal voters are not as you suggest
To lazy to walk to Polling station
And stoob believes that when my generation of 70 and 80 year olds are no longer around the likes of ex councillor Rocke will have more chance of winning local elections, Excuses galore Independents ever more  
Having said that, it is true you donít catch an old bird with chaff
On the question of canvassing who has used Abertillery on Line more than ex councillor Rocke, and his reward a poor 5th
Talking is all very well but doing is far better
Who stayed clear of the same on line and topped the poll in Llanhilleth with 747 votes Labours leader Hedley McCarthy?
A patient man will endure until the right moment, and then joy will burst forth for him    

Eddie Legge
Bertie22

Rocke

Of course the elderly and infirm are entitled to postal votes, but too many young people have them. And in some parts of the country they are being abused.
The point is, though, that candidates these days MUST canvass the postal voters - and, as I said already, the elderly love a visit.
This might be a good chance for the BG Independents to regroup and rethink!
Birdy

martyn142 wrote:
Hello Birdy - I misquoted Hedley. He didn't refer to "business as usual" but "returned to normality", although I think I got the essence of what he was saying correct. Here's the link

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news...gains-the-council-91466-30899426/


Thanks for the link Martyn. It's a good one isn't it? It seems that you interpret his comments as meaning no change in Labour's approach, whereas, I found them quite magnanimous and in no way crowing. Which is exactly what I would have expected from Hedley MacCarthy who I worked with for a number of years......lovely chap when he was on the Union in work and you will find that there are many many people who look at this site and feel the same way. Thankyou again for the link which is a much fuller report than anything else I've seen.   Smile
Eddie legge

Re: Insulting to the elderly

Eddie legge wrote:
Bertie 23, My wife and I like countless other postal voters are not as you suggest
To lazy to walk to Polling station
And stoob believes that when my generation of 70 and 80 year olds are no longer around the likes of ex councillor Rocke will have more chance of winning local elections, Excuses galore Independents ever more †
Having said that, it is true you donít catch an old bird with chaff
On the question of canvassing who has used Abertillery on Line more than ex councillor Rocke, and his reward a poor 5th
Talking is all very well but doing is far better
Who stayed clear of the same on line and topped the poll in Llanhilleth with 747 votes Labours leader Hedley McCarthy?
A patient man will endure until the right moment, and then joy will burst forth for him † †

Eddie Legge
Eddie legge

Re: Insulting to the elderly

Eddie legge wrote:
Bertie 22, My wife and I like countless other postal voters are not as you suggest
To lazy to walk to Polling station
And stoob believes that when my generation of 70 and 80 year olds are no longer around the likes of ex councillor Rocke will have more chance of winning local elections, Excuses galore Independents ever more †
Having said that, it is true you donít catch an old bird with chaff
On the question of canvassing who has used Abertillery on Line more than ex councillor Rocke, and his reward a poor 5th
Talking is all very well but doing is far better
Who stayed clear of the same on line and topped the poll in Llanhilleth with 747 votes Labours leader Hedley McCarthy?
A patient man will endure until the right moment, and then joy will burst forth for him † †

Eddie Legge
martyn142

Birdy wrote:
martyn142 wrote:
Hello Birdy - I misquoted Hedley. He didn't refer to "business as usual" but "returned to normality", although I think I got the essence of what he was saying correct. Here's the link

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news...gains-the-council-91466-30899426/


Thanks for the link Martyn. It's a good one isn't it? It seems that you interpret his comments as meaning no change in Labour's approach, whereas, I found them quite magnanimous and in no way crowing. Which is exactly what I would have expected from Hedley MacCarthy who I worked with for a number of years......lovely chap when he was on the Union in work and you will find that there are many many people who look at this site and feel the same way. Thankyou again for the link which is a much fuller report than anything else I've seen. † Smile


Yep Birdy, that's how I interpret his comments. I have never worked with Hedley but know him very well. I couldn't count the number of times he has stayed at my house.

I am sure he has many supporters here and elsewhere. He must do or he wouldn't have topped the poll.  Personally, I wouldn't vote for him in a million years but I suppose I'm not typical.
Bertie22

Rocke

The Independents clearly made a most stupid mistake in putting up 3 at Six Bells for 2 places. (Yes, I know it's called democracy - but what silly tactics!)
I am sure that that's why they lost one to Labour. Shame.
David

Christ fancy boasting about hedley wots his name staying at your house. I`ve had mice staying at mine so beat that.
Rocke

Re: Insulting to the elderly

Eddie legge wrote:
Birdy 23, My wife and I like countless other postal voters are not as you suggest
To lazy to walk to Polling station
And stoob believes that when my generation of 70 and 80 year olds are no longer around the likes of ex councillor Rocke will have more chance of winning local elections, Excuses galore Independents ever more †
Having said that, it is true you donít catch an old bird with chaff
On the question of canvassing who has used Abertillery on Line more than ex councillor Rocke, and his reward a poor 5th
Talking is all very well but doing is far better
Who stayed clear of the same on line and topped the poll in Llanhilleth with 747 votes Labours leader Hedley McCarthy?
A patient man will endure until the right moment, and then joy will burst forth for him † †

Eddie Legge


Oh dear.

I have proof that the election was won before the ballot boxes were counted.
This is going to be an interesting few days.

As they say, there's nothing worse than an old fool.
853 OKG

Rocke, I respectfully suggest you take your proof to the authorities, before they come to you. If you are suggesting malpractice Re the vote counting this is a serious issue.
martyn142

David wrote:
Christ fancy boasting about hedley wots his name staying at your house. I`ve had mice staying at mine so beat that.


Hello again David  Laughing I wasn't boasting, I was trying to indicate that I know Hedley very well in case Birdy thought otherwise. Good contribution though  Very Happy
Rocke

Re: Rocke

Bertie22 wrote:
The Independents clearly made a most stupid mistake in putting up 3 at Six Bells for 2 places. (Yes, I know it's called democracy - but what silly tactics!)
I am sure that that's why they lost one to Labour. Shame.


I think you've said something very pertinent 'Bertie'.
Not the figures - which suggest that if Roy got all his votes at the expense of Jim then yes, two Independent candidates carved themselves up.

I'm talking about the "The Independents clearly made a most stupid mistake in putting up 3". That implies that you think the Independents are some sort of political movement or grouping.

I'm not going into the rights and wrongs of your view, but it's the perception isn't it ?

If I tried to sum up 'The Partnership' as it was originally called it would be 'a number of independent-minded councillors working in tandem with a number of politically-minded councillors under the leadership of single-minded councillors'.

I use the term 'single-minded' because even from Day One re-election was the order of the day. Seriously, within the first few months I heard the expression 'in four years' time'.

In 2008 people wanted change but not just a change in the people who represented them. They wanted change in the way things were run.
Unfortunately, though quite naturally, experienced councillors had to take the lead, and of course they simply carried on in the old ways. That cost this Borough dearly.
The same will happen to this council. It will fail to modernise because modernist thinking isn't available, and if it were it would be stiffled. I couldn't do it, forceful as I can be. A party person has no chance.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I and the people I worked with should never have allowed anyone to get the perception that we were a political grouping. Politically organised perhaps but not noted as 'the Independents'.
Rocke

853 OKG wrote:
Rocke, I respectfully suggest you take your proof to the authorities, before they come to you. If you are suggesting malpractice Re the vote counting this is a serious issue.


Don't put words in my mouth.
And you can withdraw that insinuation as well.

Perhaps if you read all the relevant posts instead of being selective you would have known what I meant.
Rocke

David wrote:
... fancy boasting about hedley wots his name staying at your house. I`ve had mice staying at mine so beat that.


A dozen or so Cardiff City fans after a game against Cambridge Utd, one of which is a contributor on here.   Smile
Birdy

martyn142 wrote:
Birdy wrote:
martyn142 wrote:
Hello Birdy - I misquoted Hedley. He didn't refer to "business as usual" but "returned to normality", although I think I got the essence of what he was saying correct. Here's the link

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news...gains-the-council-91466-30899426/


Thanks for the link Martyn. It's a good one isn't it? It seems that you interpret his comments as meaning no change in Labour's approach, whereas, I found them quite magnanimous and in no way crowing. Which is exactly what I would have expected from Hedley MacCarthy who I worked with for a number of years......lovely chap when he was on the Union in work and you will find that there are many many people who look at this site and feel the same way. Thankyou again for the link which is a much fuller report than anything else I've seen. † Smile


Yep Birdy, that's how I interpret his comments. I have never worked with Hedley but know him very well. I couldn't count the number of times he has stayed at my house.

I am sure he has many supporters here and elsewhere. He must do or he wouldn't have topped the poll. †Personally, I wouldn't vote for him in a million years but I suppose I'm not typical.


Laughing Well...if I were to interpret your comments Martyn....I think I would say (bearing in mind your personal relationship with him) that it is perhaps a personal matter and not a political one. Pray do tell....not that I'm nosey or anything mind.  Wink
John69

Hi Eddie Legge,
You seem to be a knowledgable person, out of curiosity do you know any of the councillors personally, or anyone in a relevant position within the borough (dont get me wrong its not a bad thing), or perhaps someone close to you knows of relevant people.

I know alot of information anyone cant get if they read papers etc. but you are knowledgable, which is good. Just curious.
martyn142

Birdy wrote:
Laughing Well...if I were to interpret your comments Martyn....I think I would say (bearing in mind your personal relationship with him) that it is perhaps a personal matter and not a political one. Pray do tell....not that I'm nosey or anything mind. †Wink

I don't think it takes a huge leap of imagination to interpret Hedley's "return to normality" quote as meaning more of the same from Labour. In fact I think it would be hard to interpret it any other way.

However, I'm less convinced that my comments could be interpreted as suggesting a personal issue with Hedley. If you think they do - or anyone else does for that matter - then that's your prerogative of course Birdy Very Happy
Birdy

martyn142 wrote:
Birdy wrote:
Laughing Well...if I were to interpret your comments Martyn....I think I would say (bearing in mind your personal relationship with him) that it is perhaps a personal matter and not a political one. Pray do tell....not that I'm nosey or anything mind. †Wink

I don't think it takes a huge leap of imagination to interpret Hedley's "return to normality" quote as meaning more of the same from Labour. In fact I think it would be hard to interpret it any other way.

However, I'm less convinced that my comments could be interpreted as suggesting a personal issue with Hedley. If you think they do - or anyone else does for that matter - then that's your prerogative of course Birdy Very Happy


Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing So so obvious  Laughing
martyn142

If it makes you happy Sue  Very Happy
Bertie22

Rocke

One gathers that the Welsh Assembly governing party has now stipulated that the newly elected councils will serve FIVE years!  Is this true??
How can 4 become 5 at the drop of a hat, and without debate?
Are there to be no protests about this afront to democracy?
Answers please.
Rocke

I'll give others a chance first Bertie.

'See' you on Friday I suppose.
cowpat

Rocks Final Role

Will LABOUR new theme song be  YOU DO IT MY WAY.
Rocke

Re: Rocke

Bertie22 wrote:
One gathers that the Welsh Assembly governing party has now stipulated that the newly elected councils will serve FIVE years! †Is this true??
How can 4 become 5 at the drop of a hat, and without debate?
Are there to be no protests about this afront to democracy?
Answers please.


A tad late but.....

The excuse by Carl Sergeant is that the British Govt has set 5 year fixed terms.

That means a Parliamentary Election in 2015.

The date for fixed elections is always the first Thursday in May.
That means that then Parliamentary Election will coincide with the 4-yearly WG elections.

Carl Sergeant thinks that the populace are so thick that having to vote for an AM and an MP will be too much, and has therefore decided to use WG poweres to put the AM elections back a year.

However, that means that there will be AM elections coinciding with local govt. ones, and the populace are too thick for that, so he has postponed the 2016 local govt. elections until 2017.

It's simply coincidence that the WG's plans coincided with a massive Labour win in LG elections.

(And I'm sober, most unusual for this time of night, so woe betide anyone who accuses me of stirring it up...........)

Smile
SonOfACynic

Rocke you s**t stirrer...........


Can they do that though?
Rocke

Wink

Yes, the WG have powers to set election dates etc. under the act that set it up.

Or so I've been told (whose source derived from down in er... Cardiff).

It's an extra year for councillors to get used to their couincil-provided laptops anyway, so that will be useful.
SonOfACynic

Laptops!!!!!!!!!!!

Surely they've agreed between themselves that they deserve a swanky new IPad?

It's the very least us tax payers could do for them  Laughing
Rocke

Which would prefer to do - press the buttons or keep in touch ?
Bertie22

Rocke

One gathers that this site itself might be in danger if the new Labour Council has its way. Just rumours. But strong ones.
Perhaps Eddie would like to enlighten us. It would be a profound loss to him also...........
No amount of (necessary) modern technology can remove the need for the traditional face-to-face councillor "Surgery" with a constituent - it often builds up a relationship which endures till the next Elections. Did you do them, Rocky? Well, I'm sure you did.
Bertie
martyn142

The new Labour Council has no power over the administration of this site at all. It is under no threat from them whatsoever.

I have been told in the past by a Labour member that one of his colleague's is keeping a dossier on me, personally  Laughing  Laughing You really couldn't make it up. Talk about delusions of grandeur.  Rolling Eyes
Bertie22

Rocke

Martyn,
Where does Six Bells end and Abertillery begin?
Is Queen Street School a rough boundary?
Is the whole of Richmond Road (up to Queen Street) actually in Six Bells?
Rocke

Re: Rocke

Bertie22 wrote:
One gathers that this site itself might be in danger if the new Labour Council has its way. Just rumours. But strong ones.
Perhaps Eddie would like to enlighten us. It would be a profound loss to him also...........
No amount of (necessary) modern technology can remove the need for the traditional face-to-face councillor "Surgery" with a constituent - it often builds up a relationship which endures till the next Elections. Did you do them, Rocky? Well, I'm sure you did.
Bertie


Never did 'surgeries'.
People only go to a 'surgery' when there's something wrong with them.

We ( Delwyn and I ) attended quite a few organised, regular, monthly meetings of organisations which performed 2 functions:

1) they were in effect surgeries if there were complaints; and
2) we could keep people informed and up to date.

I note that the Labour candidates' manifesto said they would hold regular surgeries.
Why?
If someone has a need to complain they won't wait will they?
It's simply a way of fending off unwanted 'interuptions'. I expect to be informed that some councillor or other says to a constituent 'see me at the next surgery'.

Oh - and I can emphatically tell you that the best 'surgery' is a rolling, dynamic one ie. YOU ARE OUT IN THE OPEN, AVAILABLE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE ie. a 24/365 councillor.
Rocke

Re: Rocke

Bertie22 wrote:
Martyn,
Where does Six Bells end and Abertillery begin?
Is Queen Street School a rough boundary?
Is the whole of Richmond Road (up to Queen Street) actually in Six Bells?


The Wards boundary goes up the middle of Cwm Cottage Rd. ie south of the junctions is Six Bells and North is Abertillery.
Therefore the Cenotaph is Abertillery but the top bus stop(s) in Alexandra Rd are Six Bells.
Bizarrely the old Leisure Centre is in Abertillery but the skateboard park is Six Bells.

PS Richmond Rd is apposite to Princess St. Alexandra Rd is apposite to Queen St, and yes - all of Richmond Rd is 'Six Bells'.
Rocke

martyn142 wrote:
The new Labour Council has no power over the administration of this site at all. It is under no threat from them whatsoever.

I have been told in the past by a Labour member that one of his colleague's is keeping a dossier on me, personally †LaughingLaughing You really couldn't make it up. Talk about delusions of grandeur. †Rolling Eyes


But it's tried, and failed dismally.

 Very Happy
martyn142

It's laughable Rockey.

Here are a few political forums - are they going to try and close those down too? Do they think they or the public fund this forum? They haven't a clue. What is Sue going to do with her dossier on me?†Laughing

It makes you fear for our future with people like that running the show.

http://www.politicsforum.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=95

http://www.conservativesforum.com/
Rocke

EL Cabal has made another attempt at shutting me up apparently Martyn.

Just been informed by the Ombudsman - YET AGAIN - that another complaint not worthy of investigation has been despatched to the bin.

I haven't received my copy if the complaint, but I will.
I fear a cyber-war is about to start  Twisted Evil
martyn142

Is this Community Council manifesto-related? Has anything come of that after the threats of legal action were issued?
Rocke

None whatsoever.

Spineless.
Threaten this forum, all show.

The Community Council is going to be shown up for what it is, a cosy little club of people (mainly Labourites) who have failed to do whatb they could for Aber and its surrounds, a bunch whio are in the thrall of someone who isn't even an elected representative.

I haven't had a follow-up letter from Julian Meek, who demanded I withdraw my comments or he'd report me.

I haven't had any of the other sheep bleat about how nasty and wrong I've been about them.

There wasn't a single candidate that would acknowledge me on Count Night.
Probably annoyed because Steve and I had made them stop up for a bit.

No probs Martyn, the Accounts will be useful this year.
A bit of unrest, 50 voters asking for a Community Meeting, 300 there and 151 of them demanding a referendum, and the people get their chance.
Bertie22

Rocke

Then you must "get them there", Rocky!
It's no good going on about Labourites! Many good people ARE Labour because they still think it's 1930!! Shame about the people who represent them, but that is true of all political parties..
And why should Julian be blamed for going down to Llanhilleth? Clearly nobody down there was interested in being a Community councillor - even the Labourites - otherwise there would have been a contest! There are vacancies - can't you get on that way?
It was all a mid-term anti Government thing. Your turn will come again.
Bertie
Rocke

He walked out on his constituents for purely self-interest reasons Bertie.

Mind you if he applies his energies to Llan CF as he did in Cwmtillery then there is a silver lining for the people of Llan.
In that respect it is a pity that Cwmtillery won't see any more of him.

I have it on good authority though that he's been dabbling in Cwmtillery Ward matters, not a good thing if you represent another Ward. The Ombudsman might not like that sort of thing.

The Community Council will now pick its own councillors by co-opting them. Democracy eh?
Bertie22

Rocke

Well, Rocky, Cwmtillery will see a lot more of Julian as time passes. He is to be made a Catholic Deacon in July and has two Missions, one at Cwmtillery and the other down at Newbridge.
By the way, this thread should not be called "Rocke's final role" because you will RETURN!
Greetings,
Bertie
ps: the people who failed to win a seat in the Community elections should, surely, be the first to be offered one of the remaining places. There is one at Six Bells. Can't you apply for it? Christine was going to do so had she lost out on the Borough!
Rocke

Re: Rocke

Bertie22 wrote:
Well, Rocky, Cwmtillery will see a lot more of Julian as time passes. He is to be made a Catholic Deacon in July and has two Missions, one at Cwmtillery and the other down at Newbridge.
By the way, this thread should not be called "Rocke's final role" because you will RETURN!
Greetings,
Bertie
ps: the people who failed to win a seat in the Community elections should, surely, be the first to be offered one of the remaining places. There is one at Six Bells. Can't you apply for it? Christine was going to do so had she lost out on the Borough!


Not my Ward I'm afraid.
Nothing whatsoever against any other Valleys locale but I'm a Cwmtillery boy, though freely accepted as an honorary Aber one ( and Six Bells).

No regrets and no return. The past 2 weeks have been thoroughly enjoyable.
One small aftershock to come is my publishing of Past Eddie's unworthy complaint to the Ombudsman, which I hope to get around to tomorrow, if the postman delivers it.

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