There is growing discontentment regarding many council policys If the council has " it's finger on the pulse" it should come as no surpise that influential people in the borough are in favour of mass public demonstrations to vent their anger at the wanton waste of public money in so many areas yet they want to stop such basics as street lighting This council should not underestimate the power of the public when well organised
Careful - you're sounding like one of our long-lost contributors.
And in case you can't remember there wasn't that many people stoked up about the Bridge, despite petitions, meedia coverage etc.
And in the end it was delivered.
And just like the necessary disruption was in the end worth it then changes to some things taken for granted and the disruption caused by taking time to adapt to those changes will result in the continuation of vital services.
If you - or anyone - could be absolutely assured that these, perhaps unwelcome, strategies will guarantee the continuence of the social care, education and environmental services provided for all citizens I'm sure you would agree with them.
The problem is that none of us can. But doing nothing will guarantee that this council will lurch back into the dark days of a few years back when urgent action had to be taken in some areas.
btw I will take you task regarding 'wanton waste'.
If you actually believe that we deliberately waste money then you're a complete prat.
There's a lot of scope for stopping wastage - and you won't believe how much I've thought of - but the wastage is down to the ways we do things, not because money is deliberately ( or did you really mean to imply negligently ?) squandered.
And of course it's easy to realise that money could have been put to better use in hindsight. _________________ Rocke
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:29 am Post subject: Petition against switch-off ‘should go to the Assembly’
Quote:
THE street-light issue in Blaenau Gwent has sparked another conflict, with MP Dai Davies accusing Labour members of being short-sighted in their opposition to the scheme.
In the same week that Labour Parliamentary candidate Nick Smith took to the streets of Ebbw Vale to give anti-switch off campaigners his backing, independent MP Mr Davies said: “Given the fact that it was Labour who slashed the budget and it is a Labour Government in London which fails to fairly fund services for Wales, it’s a bit rich for any Labour figure to be out trying to get names on a petition. “There is no-one in Blaenau Gwent who does not know that Labour is the largest party in that Assembly.
“Labour has the biggest voting power in the Assembly cabinet and therefore had the largest say in Blaenau Gwent having its funding seriously cut by the Labour-led Assembly.
“Any such petition should go, not to the council, but to the Labour Government in London and Cardiff.
“That is where the responsibility really lies for the cutbacks that we in Blaenau Gwent are now being forced to face.”
Calling for an immediate review of the policy, Mr Davies also targeted the leading group for not thinking the scheme through and chastised them for the lack of consultation with residents.
After joining campaigners from Cwm, who gathered more than 200 signatures in just one hour in Ebbw Vale town centre last Friday, Labour Parliamentary candidate Nick Smith said: “Many local people were incandescent with anger, some came to us with stories about friends or neighbours being hurt in unnecessary accidents.
“People were worried about the increased dangers of crime, others were afraid that there would be more road accidents as the weather gets worse, as winter comes closer.
“The campaign is starting to sparkle.”
MP Dai Davies said the concern should be focused on getting the policy right rather than fear-mongering.
He said: “Trish Law and I have made clear our concerns to the council’s most senior officers, and to councillors, about this decision.
“We have had many complaints from constituents and share their concerns.
“We have been careful not to increase those concerns and the fears being expressed about crime and antisocial behaviour after dark, and with the street lights off.
“No-one should play politics with people’s fears.
“It is our view that more thought should have been given, and much better consultation with the public carried out, before such a decision was taken.”
Mr Davies explained that it is his opinion that the people of Blaenau Gwent come first and that risk assessments and consultations were crucial before turning the lights off in any street.
He called on the council to rethink the policy.
He said: “At every stage we have said that because the council is faced with having to make savings it must do so with as little damage as possible to the people of Blaenau Gwent.
“If lights have to be turned off then it should be every second or third light.
“This should be applied equally across Blaenau Gwent, and that not one street should be plunged into darkness.”
Leader of Blaenau Gwent council Des Hillman confirmed that the decision was under constant review and a decision will be made next month on how best to go forward.
It was also confirmed that the council would be considering almost 200 special requests for lights to be turned back on in specific areas.
Anyone with concerns can contact Connect 2 Blaenau Gwent on 01495 311556.
Rocke I thought the unrest regarding public spending was common knowledge I do disagree with the lights being switched off however because of my occupation I can not be involved in public protests not that I think I would anyway My conscience always affects my actions I hope this applies also to the council I do believe this does apply to you _________________ Down at the red rose cafe in the harbour there by the port just outside Amsterdam
There is a lot of unhappiness ( to put it very mildly ) about public spending but what disappoints me is the fact that many - in fact most - of the people I have chats with about public finances somewhere bring councillors' 'expenses', charges levied and the money council workers are on into it.
What really annoys me is that those people haven't been given the whole truth. I believe that one should always given the whole picture ( not being funny, but that's why I've got a reputation for being long-winded ).
The 'politicians' will only ever tell you what they want you to hear. That means people get stirred up and make it harder for people like me to actually determine what folks want, because all they'll say is they want everything while believing you'll deliver nothing.
A quick example. There was a meeting this week which I couldn't attend but I got this report. It was a meeting of a small locality where a person stated that looking at 'Councillors expenses' we'd have more police if we got rid of councillors.
What would be the point of trying to convince this citizen you're trying to get something done to improve things for them. They're set in their ways.
If I explained that payments to councillors comes from a 'Council pot' and mo0ney for PCs comes from a 'Police pot', over which the council has no control whatsoever ( notice on your Council Tax Bills that it says 'amount to Gwent Police ?). The Police, like the Community Council tell BGCBC how much they want out of each household, yet we, on your behalf have absolutely no say in policing. We can try to influence, nothing more.
So, let's have thousands out on the streets demanding the lights are back on ( I know you're not advocating that, but you'll get my meaning ).
What are the possible outcomes ?
1) there'll be no change of heart.
The reasons being a) there's still 2+ years before the next election; b) the people have just been striired up by the Opposition and they're not going to be given the satisfaction of crowing over making the council do a U-turn ;
2) the strategy will be abandoned and the switch-off binned.
This results in a) every T, D & H taking to the streets to complain about anything that they dislike; b) £180,000 has to be found somewhere else.
I bet it wouldn't be long before one section of the public marched down Somerset St. complaining that the council cut the hours of Care Workers and hence the number of visits made because Social Care had to find,say, £25,000 of savings, and would meet another group demonstrating against a reduction of opening hours in Leisure Centres because £35,000 had to be found there, sporting organisations massing because a pitch or two was taken out of commission etc. etc.
This isn't a political point but politics does play a great part, so I'm leaving the rest of my argument until this week's 'week that was' over in the other section. _________________ Rocke
Unless I've missed something here, why are some areas, like The Fields in Llan completely in darkness, but all the lights still seem to be working on Commercial Road and up in Brynithel?
Wouldn't it have been fairer to have partial switch offs in all areas rather than plunge one area into total darkness and leave others with all theirs still on?
Unless I've missed something here, why are some areas, like The Fields in Llan completely in darkness, but all the lights still seem to be working on Commercial Road and up in Brynithel?
Wouldn't it have been fairer to have partial switch offs in all areas rather than plunge one area into total darkness and leave others with all theirs still on?
The problem is the technology.
Generally there's 1) lights controlled by solar cell, which obviously have a mind of their own; and 2) lights (computer) controlled by a system called Mayflower.
The later, newer lights installed are on Mayflower, so they can be switched off at will. Areas with older lights can't.
That's why there's the strange sight of one street fully liy and the next one up off.
I - and a few others - suggested pulling the bulbs or fuses out of every other etc. but apparently that will lead to condensation and corrosion, meaning the lights will cost a fortune to put back in order.
Hasn't stopped Torfaen doing it, but they probably realise that it would take a lot of extra cash coming in future years for them to go back on.
I think there might be a case for not switching on lights at all during the Summer ( mid-week ? ) in those roads that aren't having switch-offs, and the energy saved possibly enable areas on Mayflower to have more hours of lighting.
It's a thorny one that needs right outside the box thinking !
I'm currently working on a possible plan for Cwmtillery Ward, which would try to ensure that every street had at least ambient lighting from nearby streets that weren't switched off. _________________ Rocke
Time for an old joke A rich man has a son for his birthday he askes for a aircraft his father buys him Concord next birthday the child wants a ship daddy buys him the QE2 next years' birthday he askes for a cowboy outfit so the "old man" buys him Bleanau Gwent County Bourough Council _________________ Down at the red rose cafe in the harbour there by the port just outside Amsterdam
Just a thought, are low energy light bulbs used ?,
or able to be used ?, might have missed if already mentioned Dave
Typical answer - yes and no, Dave (!).
Initially all lights were old-style high energy use.
When replacements are made then low energy bulbs are used. The reason we wouldn't do a mass replacement is the initial significant cost of doing so.
The newest lighting being installed is of course the low energy type.
However, some of this type cut down on the energy used because the beam is narrower and hence the area covered is less. I think I'm right in saying that the design usually means no back-lighting. I assume therefore that this type might not be suitable for some streets. Imaging passing from a lit pavement to unlit steps up to a house.
I will state my position which is that in my experiences given some issues I'll be strongly pressing for removal/disabling of some lighting in order to put more light into some other streets and roads, if no other solution is found. _________________ Rocke
Time for an old joke A rich man has a son for his birthday he askes for a aircraft his father buys him Concord next birthday the child wants a ship daddy buys him the QE2 next years' birthday he askes for a cowboy outfit so the "old man" buys him Bleanau Gwent County Bourough Council
Seems like it continues to be old-fashioned thinking in some quarters as well.
The dinosaur had its day, and the influence of the dinosaurs around here is diminishing.
And remember that the extinction of the dinosaurs came about through a cataclysmic event that left Earth unable to sustain real life for millennia.
I don't think we want to do that here.
We have to slowly root out outdated practices, you the public have to root out those who propagate and help sustain outdated practices.
Then the next evolutionary phase can begin.
There's a significant but barely noticed change in the administration due to the last election. Now this council is run by a mix of politicians, successful business people, people whose jobs involve roles in business and 'people people'.
In theory that is a very good blend. It remains to be seen if it works in practice.
Regrettably public image is still the main issue and to improve that means proving those with old-fashioned ideas and remarks about the council and councillors as dinosaurs.
And don't forget they had a brain the size of a pea.
I had one such muppet on Saturday again. Just wanted to say 'all the money these councillors have'. Hopefully I won't have to repeat my reply to him to anyone on here.
In the main this forum has moved on well, in regard to matters of public interest viz a viz the Council. Now members can ask searching questions and I'll do my damnedest to get answers to them. The days of making stupid and inflammatory remarks designed to stir people up are dying off. Hopefully the days of making cheap and daft posts such as this are as well.
No real personal dig at you DH, but just taking an opportunity to ask for productive feedback and postings so we ( because mark my words quite a few of my colleagues follow this forum ) can try to act on them and at least inform you of the reasons behind your concerns and what we're trying to do.
Having worked in systems designs and IT, I do not accept the 'it's the technology' explanation. Switches work both ways and what can be done can be undone in any system architecture.
Interesting that this troublesome 'technology' was not an problem or a barrier when the timing on the lights was altered earlier in the year. Logically, whatever was done then to alter the timing could be done again to have the lights coming back on at 4.30am instead of 6am, for people going to work on early shifts?
It just feels like The Fields have been singled out or made an example of, while the rest of Llan and Brynithel are still lit up at night.
I suspect the truth lies in feet dragging and the unwillingness of the bureaucrats responsible to let go of the dogma and admit they were wrong.
Having worked in systems designs and IT, I do not accept the 'it's the technology' explanation. Switches work both ways and what can be done can be undone in any system architecture.
Interesting that this troublesome 'technology' was not an problem or a barrier when the timing on the lights was altered earlier in the year. Logically, whatever was done then to alter the timing could be done again to have the lights coming back on at 4.30am instead of 6am, for people going to work on early shifts?
It just feels like The Fields have been singled out or made an example of, while the rest of Llan and Brynithel are still lit up at night.
I suspect the truth lies in feet dragging and the unwillingness of the bureaucrats responsible to let go of the dogma and admit they were wrong.
Mmmm - so how do we tell solar sensors/cells to switch off at midnight then ?
Perhaps we could turn them into lunar cells and get them to switch off when the Moon is bright ?
No doubt you have a clever idea on what to do when a full moon comes up at 7pm on a winter night - perhaps teach the cell the months of the year so it won't switch off in Winter before midnight ?
Yes, yes, I've made a stupid comment. Not one meant to take the mickey out of you Abrogator but simply to show how difficult it is to program things.
You've been in IT so you should know how difficult it is to make technology think and react like humans.
I would like to see Mayflower ( the software application that can control times off and on ) to ascertain whether it could be better utilised.
I've never bothered with systems design etc. I just look at what was required, what was intended, what was achieved and what the outcome is. Where they deviate is where I come in.
Your comments regarding timing are spot on. I couldn't say anything else, considering my letter published in The Gazette this last week.
It's the thinking that needs reprogramming primarily. _________________ Rocke
Having worked in systems designs and IT, I do not accept the 'it's the technology' explanation. Switches work both ways and what can be done can be undone in any system architecture.
Interesting that this troublesome 'technology' was not an problem or a barrier when the timing on the lights was altered earlier in the year. Logically, whatever was done then to alter the timing could be done again to have the lights coming back on at 4.30am instead of 6am, for people going to work on early shifts?
It just feels like The Fields have been singled out or made an example of, while the rest of Llan and Brynithel are still lit up at night.
I suspect the truth lies in feet dragging and the unwillingness of the bureaucrats responsible to let go of the dogma and admit they were wrong.
Mmmm - so how do we tell solar sensors/cells to switch off at midnight then ?
Perhaps we could turn them into lunar cells and get them to switch off when the Moon is bright ?
No doubt you have a clever idea on what to do when a full moon comes up at 7pm on a winter night - perhaps teach the cell the months of the year so it won't switch off in Winter before midnight ?
Yes, yes, I've made a stupid comment. Not one meant to take the mickey out of you Abrogator but simply to show how difficult it is to program things.
You've been in IT so you should know how difficult it is to make technology think and react like humans.
I would like to see Mayflower ( the software application that can control times off and on ) to ascertain whether it could be better utilised.
I've never bothered with systems design etc. I just look at what was required, what was intended, what was achieved and what the outcome is. Where they deviate is where I come in.
Your comments regarding timing are spot on. I couldn't say anything else, considering my letter published in The Gazette this last week.
It's the thinking that needs reprogramming primarily.
Fair points, and thank you for clearing up some misunderstandings on the issue. It is indeed the lights that can be controlled that are the focus of concern and hopefully, whoever is responisble for operating the Mayflower system will see sense before someone has a bad accident down here.
Apologies if my previous post came across the wrong way. I wasn't getting at you about the lights, just venting a bit on the issue and getting a bit lost in a ramble!
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